33 Grinder's 33 in Rayleigh, Essex.

[33grinder]

Well, I didn't really want to start a thread about my 33 until she was back on the road, but I've started so many threads on this forum at various stages, not to mention highjacking others' threads so it's about time I started this one I suppose. ;D

I've got some pictures of her (admittedly not great) of her pre-surgery.

Hopefully, gods of photofeckit willing, you'll see them below:







Note I don't go for the toilet role holder, I just have the toilet role on show in its raw form! ;D

If not then here's a link and someone feel free to download them should you so wish.

s979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/33grinder33/

There's not a current photo of her but it doesn't look that different from my avatar. Today I stripped the clutch housing to check those darn springs again and....I had in fact put everything together properly - Yay!!

I put on my newly hammerited heat exchangers and the clip on guards that go round the cylinder heads (also hamerited) and put all the other gubbins back on the front of the engine.

Everything went quite smoothly apart from one minor detail and a quick call to Mattsdafs72 sorted that out as he had a removed by whole 33 engine to look at and answer my questions - thanks mate!

Necessity is the mother of invention as they say and I realised that, with everything back on the front of the engine, it wouldn't fit into the engine bay sufficiently to allow the garage door to be closed.

Well, it came out on a trolly jack but would it go back in? Three hopes, no hope, Bob Hope and Stanford No-Hope (sorry, that's a bit of an Essex joke there). I even considered removing the propshaft, fitting it onto the clutch shaft and putting the engine in then sorting out the vario end, but I was advised that's not such a good idea. So, onwards and there followed many loud expletives which cannot be repeated on this forum, 'feck' amongst others and that's not to mention judicious use of the 'f' word! Between these exclamaitions I could hear the curtains rustling of the many pensioners in our road and to prevent becoming the 'persona non-gratia' in my neighbourhood a decision was taken to call it a night and get the engine as far into the bay that I could with use of various props etc to squeeze it in. ;D Also my back gave me a warning that all of this lifting Daf's finest was going a step too far and I think tomorrow will be pay-back time.

So, I've come to the conclusion that this is going to be a two man job and, speaking to Mattsdafs72 he has a similar situation with his 46 so between the two of us we'll hopefully get both motors sorted.

Ah well, it's all been good honest fun today but beer o'clock came early, coinciding with the failing light.

I'll keep you informed of all further developments as I know you'll all be eager to hear whether, once it's back together, it'll still grind! If not then need I change my nom-de-plume? ;D

[33grinder]

The gods of the holy Photofeckit were not smiling on me it would appear.

Rather poor effort so I'll give it another go, ho hum.

[33grinder]

Grrr!

I give up!

[33grinder]

One last try?....

[33grinder]

Sorry, the gods are still not smiling and I would like to show you the pictures but an hour spent and still no joy

someone feel free to tell me where I've gone wrong!

[spunkymonkey]

Oct 3, 2009 21:46:54 GMT 33grinder said:

......

Hopefully, gods of photofeckit willing, you'll see them below:







...... here's a link and someone feel free to download them should you so wish.

s979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/33grinder33/

There's not a current photo of her but it doesn't look that different from my avatar. Today I stripped the clutch housing to check those darn springs again and....I had in fact put everything together properly - Yay!! ......


.... Necessity is the mother of invention as they say and I realised that, with everything back on the front of the engine, it wouldn't fit into the engine bay sufficiently to allow the garage door to be closed.

Well, it came out on a trolly jack but would it go back in? Three hopes, no hope, Bob Hope and Stanford No-Hope (sorry, that's a bit of an Essex joke there). I even considered removing the propshaft, fitting it onto the clutch shaft and putting the engine in then sorting out the vario end, but I was advised that's not such a good idea. So, onwards and there followed many loud expletives which cannot be repeated on this forum, 'feck' amongst others and that's not to mention judicious use of the 'f' word! Between these exclamaitions I could hear the curtains rustling of the many pensioners in our road and to prevent becoming the 'persona non-gratia' in my neighbourhood a decision was taken to call it a night and get the engine as far into the bay that I could with use of various props etc to squeeze it in......


......I'll keep you informed of all further developments as I know you'll all be eager to hear whether, once it's back together, it'll still grind! If not then need I change my nom-de-plume? ;D

The problem with your pics was that Photochuckit tends to add extra stuff to the end of the URL when you view a picture. That stuff doesn't work in between the tags on these boards.

For example, for the first pic above, you ended up with:

[img]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/33grinder33/DSC00030_1.jpg?t=1254605901[/img]

when what you wanted was:

[img]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/33grinder33/DSC00030_1.jpg[/img]

which is exactly the same but with everything after the .jpg deleted.

As for fitting the engine - it does go back in on a trolley jack with a bit of fiddling.

Make sure the prop is properly engaged with the vario unit first - if it's moved forwards and disengaged then it'll hold the engine forwards. If it has come off at the back then you can get it back in place by putting a 3/8" drive socket extension in the splines to act as a sort of handle to lift it by.

Once it's slid fully back, I found that the easiset way to get the engine to engage was to jack it up under the sump plug (keeps it almost balanced but slightly heavy at the back) and jack it a little higher than it needs to be.

Slide it back in, letting the back end dropto enter the tunnel and, when you can feel it come up against the prop, turn the clutch drum gently with your fingers. With a little luck and patience you'll feel it pick the prop up and (almost) assemble itself

[33grinder]

Hi Joe,

Top man!! Thanks very much for getting the pictures for me and explaining why it didn't work, that's great and another thing learnt.

I'll hopefully have a friend assisting me tomorrow for a bit of extra brawn, my back just wasn't up to it and if the missus and littl'n are home tomorrow I shall have to watch the profanities! ;D

Thanks for your help, I'll let you know how I get on!

[Rocketman]

Just a warning note; at the vario end of the prop shaft there is a spring fitted to keep the shaft from rattling; you can access this spring via a little hatch underneath the car.
My experience is that when the shaft has come out, the spring will come off and sit on top of the little hatch doing nothing.
Hope this message is not too late...

Also make sure the rear engine mounts are fitting in a 'lifting' position; you can actually fit the wrong way, with disastrous consequences.

[33grinder]

Hi Rocketman,

Thanks for the advice, I found the little hatch by accident. I stripped the vario cover off to look at the spline and couldn't access it. Then I happened to spy the hatch, only because the plate was missing (so that's what was in my glovebox then!!). ;D

I suppose if I didn't know it was there then I wouldn't know to look for it, doh!

There is enough room in the hatch to get ones fingers in and manouver the prop shaft back onto the spline and that is what I did, although Joe's tip with the socket would have come in handy! The prop is on the spline as far back as it will go. The only problem with that is, due to the length of the transmission tunnel the clutch end of the prop shaft is hidden from view, plus it wants to sit on the bottom of the tunnel. All good fun!

Not sure what you mean about the engine mounts though, can you or anyone else elaborate on that?

Thanks,

Pete.

[33grinder]

Thanks John.

I should mention that the spring is there, in previous threads I mentioned that I couldn't 'see' it and assumed it was MIA! This was because I was shining a torch down the tunnel to look for it as I wasn't aware of the hatch! ;D

The last owner had the engine out so I will have to assume that, whilst he would have undone the mounts, he left them alone and attached to the engine, otherwise I suppose that I would be none the wiser, sometimes ignorance is bliss!

[33grinder]

Well, a bit of a mixed bag of sh!te for me today.

Just about got the engine in, thanks for the tip Joe. The clutch and prop were successfully mated, so I expect the pitter patter of little Dafs soon... ;D

Thereafter things didn't go too badly. One of the rear engine mounts was particularly fiddly to get lined up and took a little persuading, but eventually after being sworn at a few times and loosing a few chunks of skin from my knuckles, all went in.

Everything has been connected up now except the throttle cable, and I really cannot remember how this went, so if anyone has any pictures then that would be appreciated.

The fuel and vario hoses are connected as are the electrics, including the engine earth strap.

I flicked the key to the first ignition stage and nothing blew up, so that was a good start so I decided to go for broke and try to start her up.

Well, she turned over fine but didn't catch. Then there was a whiring sound followed by a burning smell, so I immediately switched the key to off and removed the battery earth.

I can only assume that I have made a mistake with the electrical connections but I don't know where. I drew diagrammes and took photographs so I am really stumped. The only thing I have done different that I can see is to connect up the oil pressure gauge (which I only noticed had't been connected when I removed the engine) To compound matters there are less than a dozen wires.

I can't detect from where the burning smell eminated so I am at a loss what's occurred. If anyone has any photos showing the electrical connections then that would be great and I can go back and check everything.

Ho hum, I'll get my hat and coat then...

[spunkymonkey]

Here's some I prepared earlier:







As for the whirring sound and burning smell - not too sure on that. A whirring sound suggests that the starter might have disengaged but it's a pre-engaged type so it should have cut out if that happened.

I'd certainly suggest looking round the starter connections for the problem as a starting point though. The easiest way (and the way I'd probably use) to trouble-shoot it would be to reconnect and get someone to watch carefully under the bonnet for smoke while you crank it again. But that probably breaks so many H&S rules that they'll come and take me away just for thinking it ;D


Edited cos it was meant to be two different pictures

[33grinder]

Thanks Joe.

The only picture I could find in the manual was for a different model carburrettor.

It's a bit tricky to figure these things with a torch, workshop manual etc, need a few pairs of hands.

Well, at least that's something I can connect up tomorrow night and another thing ticked off the list.

I'll try to post some pictures of my electrical connections so you may see something that leaps out at you....hope so!

Thanks,

Pete.

[33grinder]

Ooh,

How did that happen Joe? I saw your post with the two pictures of the throttle cable and that was it, so I replied and since then extra text has appeared. Freaky!

[spunkymonkey]

Yep, and now one of the pictures has changed as well. I have a reallly bad habit of not using the "preview" button and then realising that I hadn't typed what I wanted to (or - sometimes - anything at all ;D ) or had got pic URLs wrong. In this case I combined the two in one post

[33grinder]

Hmm, that choke cable connection is interesting....

On mine the wire has been bent and it sits behind one of the small 1/4 inch bolts. That's how it was before so that's how I put it back on....seems to work though!!

[spunkymonkey]

[spunkymonkey]

That's how it should be. Note that the choke cable doesn't attach directly to either the choke or the throttle. It attaches to a plate which pivots around the big bolt just above the "fast idle cam" label.

When you pull the choke, the plate turns and the pin on it moves in a fork attached to the choke flap. The front edge of the plate acts as a cam to open the throttle.

[33grinder]

I think I will have a closer look in the daylight.

I take it the end of your cable is straight without a kink in it and you have something to clamp it to?

Mine has been bent through almost 180 degrees, it loops around a 1/4" bolt which is then tightened. Perhaps the last owner bodged it.

Nay mind, least of my worries at the mo!

[33grinder]

We got out of sync there Joe but what you're saying sounds right from how mine was linked up.

[33grinder]

I had a little time this afternoon to devote to my 33 in an attempt to ascertain what was making the rubbing sound and burning smell (the latter of which has since dissapated).

I found the culprit to be the impellor rubbing against the oil cooling fins. The impellor also seems have have rubbed against outer plastic guard. There are witness marks on both the oil cooler fins and also the plastic guard.

Further detailed examination found there are two thin spacers that sit within a recess at the back of the impellor, then the impellor sits on top, then a spreader plate followed by three castellated nuts. The spreader plate and spacers are not interchangeable. There doesn't appear to be any end-float. I am therefore at a total loss as to why this could be.

This was not happening before all of the work I have done to her.

To recap, I have removed the engine and propellor shaft. Replaced the propellor shaft. Rebuit clutch. Renewed heat exchangers. Fitted everything back to the engine and installed engine.

Does anyone have any ideas why the impellor is now doing this?

[dafdaffer]

does the housing hold on by bent over steel brackets or straight to the block? been a while since i have had one off. if it has brackets have they been bent when the engine came out?

[spunkymonkey]

The oil cooler should be attached by 3 (from memory) short metal brackets to the block. Can't see any way they could bend enough for it to contact the fan. Besides, that wouldn't account for the fan touching the cowling.

You can almost certainly rule out nasty stuff like crank endfloat because it would need to move backwards to contact the oil cooler. If that was the case then you should be able to get obvious movement forwards again just by pulling on the fan.

So that leaves the fan (and its mounting). Are any of the blades damaged, fractured or bent? Give them all a wiggle in case one has cracked and is flexing too much. Is there any damage to them that might put the assembly out of balance - the vibration that would cause might "shake" a blade into contact. Any of these would most likely only leave marks on one or two of the blades themselves.

Has something got caught up in it and caused the damage? The most likely there would probably be a bit of the fan belt. That would give a nice burning smell and a lot of smoke (rubber does!) and may have fallen out again as you stripped it to look. You'd probably get no marks on the blades from that one.

If none of that explains it then check that the hub that the fan bolts onto is tight. It's got a single nut inside it that bolts it to the crank. If that's come loose then it might allow the fan to rock and contact the housing before it was loose enough to give any obvious endfloat. Most likely would be marks on all blades from that.

[33grinder]

Hi Joe and thanks for that.

I think I can rule out the fan belt getting caught up. I did remove the dynamo in case that was the culprit (it's difficult to pinpoint where the noise is eminating from by myself as I can't turn the key and be under the bonnet at the same time!!) The belt seemed fine as does the dynamo.

I was going to take the starter off for closer inspection but there was a pipe to be removed first which looked like a bit of an @rse so I left that one and decided to remove the impellor instead and, hey presto, the noise stopped.

So, I can only assume that the burning smell was where the impellor had been making contact with the guard at the front, where it has gouged it a fair bit to the point it looks a little 'melted', although I didn't crank the engine for long.

It should be noted here that I am starting in neutral, I haven't even got to starting her in gear to see whether the grinding has gone! I seem to have an addiction to grinding, perhaps I've lost it from the transmission now (remains to be seen!) but seemed to have gained it from the engine!! ;D

I even wondered whether I had got the exchangers on p!ssed, which I haven't but even so, that shouldn't affect the impellor itself. Looking at the manual the three bolts are like the 'grub' type with no heads. I wondered if I had overtightend the nuts but I remember when I took them off they were on there FT, so I don't think that is it either.

I can't see any loose fins on the impellor and the witness marks on the oil cooller are eratic, it's not hitting one same spot every time, but I am now turning by hand as I don't want to risk any serious damage and pilfering one of Matts spare engines for even more spare parts!! ;D

I would be surprised if the crank nut had got loose and that would be like the end float type scenario. Not owning a torque wrench I'm inclined to leave well alone. I'll have another look at the manual and see if there are any brackets etc which may have got bent. The cowling has brackets which if bent would explain the rubbing of the outer guard but not the oil cooler fins.

Hmm, hey-ho. I'll have another look next weekend and let you know if I find anything.

[33grinder]

Hi John,

My earth strap runs from the centre bottom of the back of the clutch housing to the structure running across the engine bay at the back (underneath, on the chassis). It was smegsville there but I made sure it all got a good clean before I connected up the earth. Strangely enough though the burning smell only happened on initial start up attempts and since then it hasn't come back.

A problem that fixes itself?!! That's what we like! ;D

[pauldaf44]

unfortunatly they have an annoying habit of coming back to haunt you if you don' get to the bottom of them

[daf44]

hi.

sounds like a bad electrical connection that has now welded itself in place.
keep an eye on it. it may come back, or may have cured itself for good.
i have had both happen in the past.

paul44

[33grinder]

Yep, I'll have to keep an eye on things.

Matt and Dan will hopefully be coming round at some point with a spare engine and we can pilfer bits if needed until we get to the bottom of it.

Last night I inspected the impellor in case there was anything obvious. I put it on the nearest flat surface (the chest freezer, I have to share my garage with domesticity!) and noticed it wasn't exactly flat - either that or the freezer lid wasn't. I could rock it very slightly (the impellor that is, the chest freezer is quite heavy you know!).

That being said, I don't know what the tollerance is between the fan and oil cooler. Should it be a rizzler paper gap or something a bit more meaty? I suppose the best thing is to nab a spare impellor from Matt and see if that solves the problem. Otherwise maybe some imaginative extra spacers perhaps, we'll see!

[stefan]

Smell may have been paint curing were you have painted heat exchanges and ducting

[33grinder]

I hadn't thought of that. Mind you I only turned the engine over a few seconds before I noticed the grinding and switched off again.

I am obviously destined to be a life long grinder. ;D