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Post by starider on Feb 3, 2007 0:04:38 GMT
Hi,ref. timing late Daf 33 according to service bulletin E. 0-032 the engines numbered BM 74 are timed @ 4 degrees BTDC[Dwell 57 degrees/61 degrees] Idle 725 plus/minus 25r.p.m.The later engines numbered BM 74E are timed @ 5 degrees A.T.D.C.[Dwell 57 degrees/61 degrees] Idle 900 plus/minus 25 r.p.m. Hope this helps. Starider.
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Bob Scrivens
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Ex owner of the green machine
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Post by Bob Scrivens on Feb 3, 2007 1:34:57 GMT
Thanks Starider Maybe able to sort out what the timing should be on the engine in my 33.
Regards Bob
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andrew
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Post by andrew on Sept 29, 2019 18:38:33 GMT
Bit of a late revival of this thread, but I wanted to pass on a very belated "thank you" to Starider for the information regarding the dwell angle on a Daf 33. A few weeks ago I bought a multi-meter which has a dwell angle reader for 2 cylinder cars, which took some time to track down, but it was worth it-the meter only cost £20 and it does loads of other things besides! Anyway, back to the dwell angle measurement.... I'd set the points as accurately as I could, to 0.6 mm, as per the Daf instruction and workshop manual, and the car was running well as a result. Having ensured the gear selector was in neutral, I then connected the dwell angle meter, the "+" to the side of the coil connected to the points and the "-" side to the negative side of the battery & started the engine. The dwell meter read 42 degrees, when it should read 59 degrees, so I was 17 degrees, or 4% out. Although only a small amount, I wanted to try to make it closer, so thought I'd have a go..... Remember, if the dwell angle it too large, you need to set the points wider, and vice versa. In my case, the the dwell angle was too LOW, so I need to set the points gap a little smaller. Fiddly....
I removed the distributor cap, rotor arm and cover, and wound the engine round until the gap was at its maximum. I used my feeler gauge to measure the gap and then used the next smaller feeler and set the points to just pinch that feeler strip. I then put the distributor back together and started the car.... MIRACLE! The meter was reading 60 degrees! That's close enough to 59 degrees for me! The engine didn't feel as smooth as it had, though, because by adjusting the points I had disturbed the timing, so I needed to re-set this. Using a bottle of Tippex I marked the line on the crank-case pulley, which is 5 degrees AFTER the TDC line, together with the vertical line between the engine halves. I then loosened the clamp holding the distributor and started the engine. After connecting the strobe lamp to the car battery and the near-side H.T. lead I pointed it at the mark on the engine and the moving mark (on the pulley) was nowhere to be seen. By s-l-o-w-l-y twisting the distributor the two marks lined up perfectly, and the revs correspondingly rose as a result. Having done this I switched the engine off, re-tightened the clamp holding the distributor & used the strobe lamp's rev counter to check the R.P.M., which I reduced to a point where the clutch was completely disengaged. The tick-over seemed happiest at about 825 R.P.M.
Having removed the strobe lamp from the engine bay I went for a drive.... Blimey, this was one QUICK Daf! The nippiness off the mark from the lights was astounding and this carried on right up the speed range. Driving along the A1(M) the car achieved 80 M.P.H. on a level part of motorway and was very smooth to drive.
In short, if you have the time and ability to set the points using the dwell angle, it's well worth it!
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Post by andrejuan on Sept 30, 2019 15:21:57 GMT
That is very interesting Andrew.
It has spurred me on to check my 66 properly. I think I may have a dwell function on my timing lamp. The thing is, I need the specs. obviously, but I remember someone once mentioning there had been a workshop bulletin regarding the timing on 66s? a couple of degrees less advanced iirc? Does anyone have the bulletin please?
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Post by bobdisk on May 3, 2020 11:29:19 GMT
Got the engine running !! But I cant seem to get the timing correct, but the dwell angle is not too far off, with the engine running smoothly (For a 2 pot!) The spec says a points gap of 0.4mm to 0.5mm, so I set the new points to 0.45mm, and the timing to 5mm (? see pic of the label on the inner wing of the car) after TDC. It would hardly start, and would be very lumpy. Putting the timing to 5-6 degrees BTDC, and it was now quite smooth. The best dwell angle I could get was reading just over 30%, (55 degrees) with a points gap of a tight 0.4mm. The meter scale is in %, and the list supplied with the meter says that 30% is 54 degrees, for a 2 cylinder engine, not too bad! Could not get a much smaller gap and get it started. I got the best timing by turning the distributor to get the smoothest running and using the timing light it looks to be even more advanced at about 8 Degrees. I got the idling to about 850rpm. I cant take the car on the road yet, as i still have to find a way of connecting to the tank, and have to fit it. I wont take it on the road with a bottle for petrol. The meter is a Gunsons Testune analogue multimeter that I have had for years, last time I used it was on a VW Beetle about 20+ years ago!
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gromsound
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Everything Must Work
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Post by gromsound on May 3, 2020 11:45:58 GMT
could it be that your engine is older than the car/label? Which version does the engine number say, BM74 or BM74E? The latter is equipped with anti pollution stuff (carb and dizzy) and has a timing point AFTER upper dead point. If parts have been mixed inthe past, it will not run correctly.
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Post by bobdisk on May 3, 2020 12:36:09 GMT
It is " *74E-BLnumbers* " No "BM" in front. What extra anti-polution parts should it have?
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andrew
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Post by andrew on May 3, 2020 12:54:22 GMT
Bob, without in any way wishing to inpugn your mechanical skills, you are turning the engine in the correct way, as I once tuned a 33 by turning the engine the wrong way and consequently it ran badly, to put in mildly! Pease don't take offence at this suggestion, but as I've done it myself, I just wanted to check you'd not made the same mistake!
Thinking of other things: 1/ Check is to confirm that the points are connecting properly. Believe it or not, I once found a resistance across a set of points, even when they were completely closed. I removed and cleaned them, and on their refitting re-setting, all was well. 2/ How old is the capacitor? Worth doing a test, using a multi-meter to see how quickly the resistance within the capacitor builds up. It should take a few seconds, but if the resistance is infinite straight away, the capacitor os probably dead. 3/ H.T. leads: how old are they? Plugs likewise? 4/ Is the carburettor solenoid behaving itself? If not, you'll never have the engine running properly!
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Post by bobdisk on May 3, 2020 13:16:16 GMT
Hi , thanks for the suggestions, I am turning it clockwise, when standing in front of the car. I am turning it over by using the dynamo pulley's 19mm fixing nut. Other things; 1 Its a new set of points, I always clean new ones in case there is any preserving grease on them, 2 Never thought of that, I will test it. Its the original. 3 Both new. 4 Solenoid is ok. Had heard it could be a problem, so had checked it before. It might be worth getting a new capacitor, but I intend to put electronic ignition and an electric fuel pump on it eventually. I have an SU electric pump from a Morris 1000, I think that will do.
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Post by bobdisk on May 3, 2020 14:07:10 GMT
Yes, it looks like the capacitor is faulty! I have a digital multimeter (that I use for work) with a capacitance range. I believe a typical capacitor value should be 0.22uF. This one shows it is intermittent, jumping around 0.4uF and 0.5uF, and sometimes open circuit altogether, if I leave the meter connected for a minute or so. This might be why the strobe light jumps around, and occasionally misses a flash. I have another capacitor, a bit old, but it shows a constant 0.19uF, a bit low, but it might test the system. Will try it during the week.
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andrew
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Post by andrew on May 3, 2020 14:52:25 GMT
Bob, I've re-calculated your maths, just to double-check: the dwell angle for a Daf 33 of your vintage is, as you say, 59 degrees, + or - 2 degrees. 59 divided by 180, as a percentage is 32.7%, so 33% is bang on! If you've a reading of 30% maybe tweak it a gnat's crochet (=a tad!) and see if you can get 33%. Your gauge DOES realise you're measuring a TWO cylinder engine, doesn't it?
I'm aware, from previous correspondence, that your car has suffered from some strange repairs.... maybe the pulley's been changed... If the main pulley was removed and put back on back-to front (if you see what I mean) the timing mark would be at 5 deg BEFORE T.D.C., although it SHOULD be AFTER T.D.C. Is the distributor drive worn? I've a spare distributor if you think it'd help.
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Post by bobdisk on May 3, 2020 15:57:40 GMT
Its this meter. For dwell, you read the dwell scale, in % for all cylinder engines, then translate to degrees on your particular engine, ours 2 cylinder, by reading a chart on the back of the meter, just visible on their picture. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Gunsons-Testune-Analogue-Diagnostic-Multimeter-Part-Tested-Classic-Car/392701758176?hash=item5b6ed94ae0:g:iSoAAOSw3fFeVVIkI think the pulley is correctly fitted, there are two marks close together one at TDC, one just before (or after) TDC on the side nearest the engine.I do not think it will go on the wrong way around. The distributor itself seems to be ok, but I will take it off for a more detailed look at it. The vacuum advance certainly works, suck its pipe and it moves.
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andrew
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Post by andrew on May 3, 2020 16:05:13 GMT
The capacitors are still available, the precise measurement being .27 uF, but in the absence of an exact one, 0.19uF is better than nothing. Keep us informed as to how things go!
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Post by starider on May 8, 2020 13:04:17 GMT
Hi, capacitors and contact breakers[plus many many more parts], are readily available from club spares,a quick email to Steve Bidwell will give availablity and if required, good dispatch times[obviously courier service is not as prompt at the moment].
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Post by bobdisk on May 10, 2020 19:24:45 GMT
The distributor is ok, apart from a bit of play felt at the bottom bearing, where it goes in to the engine. There is no slack at the springs. While it was out, I have adjusted the points gap to a loose 0.4mm, not quite 0.45mm to give a dwell of 34%, cant get much better than that! But I still cant get the timing better than 6 deg BTC. Dont know if its the original engine, its the right number on the V5C log book. It is " *74E-BLnumbers* " (No "BM" in anywhere in it.) What extra "anti-polution" parts should it have to make the timing 5deg ATDC ? Perhaps these parts are missing, making it want the timing at 5deg BTC
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