R5 Gordini engine

[swissdave]

Hi fellow Daffers, i have started this thread to catalogue the fitting of a Renault 5 Gordini engine into my Volvo 66.
Despite the Volvo's low mileage the car came to me with a slight cylinder head problem, leaking crank oil seals and a clutch rattle meaning that i will be removing the engine over the winter to repair everything anyway, providing that i can get this new engine built by then i will fit it instead.
I found a nice low mileage Gordini engine that I have mostly stripped and a Volvo 340 B14 engine which will provide the block and crank as well as various other bits and pieces.
The Mk1 Renault 5 had the engines mounted backwards compred to the Daf orientation and the water pump and alternator are at the wrong end, driven by an extension of the camshaft sticking out of the back if the block. The front (for Daf) mounting points are ground off the Mk1 blocks too meaning mounting becomes a pain which is why I'll be using the Volvo 340 block which will bolt right in.

Anyway, some photos:
 






If anyone has any information on this conversion or can help please jump in!

[joe]

All I can say is wow! Where did you get the Gordini engine from? The same place as the snazzy wheels?

[swissdave]

Thanks joe, it was a different source although the wheel guy is an expert on converting the Gordini engine to fit into the rear of a Renault 8. As this setup is essentialy the same as the Daf he's very handy to have found. ;-)

The engine will be standard apart from twin weber 40's and a bespoke exhaust and should give similar performance as Renospeed's in their Renault 4 van, the figures for My Car in the table below

Car Maximum BHP @ RPM Maximum Torque(lb/ft) @ RPM

R4 850 30 @ 4700 45 @ 2300
R4 1108 GTL 34 @ 4000 55 @ 2500
R5 Gordini 93 @ 6400 85 @ 4000
R5 Gordini Turbo 110 @ 6000 108.5 @ 4000
My Car 45 @ 2250 102 @ 2250
My Car 110@6300 110 @ 3750

[andrew]

There's a story on the Renault 4 website (A.K.A. "Clemintine's garage") about the fitting of a Renault 5 Gordini engine to a Renault 4. Although possibly easier, as it's Renault to Renault, the site might have some advice you may find helpful.

Renault 4s are another love of mine!

[swissdave]

One of the issues to sort out with this conversion is the camshaft. The Gordini cam will fit into the V340 block but does need modifying first.

Because the water pump and alternator are driven from the end of the cam when fitted in the Renault there is an extension on the end of the cam that I will need to have machined off or it would foul the Daf's bellhousing. The drive from the crank is also different being a twin chain on the R5 fitting and single on the V340 so the G cam needs to be altered to accept the V340 single chain sprocket so that the Volvo crank pulley and timing chain cover can be used.

The Volvo block is now stripped to a short block and the camshaft removed to be used as a template for the machining of the G5 one.

Gordini with twin chain and hydraulic tensioner

V340 with single chain and spring tensioner

Gordini cam on left, V340 on the right

[swissdave]

Another issue is the exhaust manifold. The standard Volvo cast iron one won't fit the new head as the port spacing is different and the Gordini one would point the down pipes towards the bulkhead and wouldn't work well.
I was therefore very pleased to find that DafHobby do a stainless 4 into 1 for the Alpine (Gordini) engine in a Daf as well as the one that they do for the normal engine.
It took a week to get here as Danny had to get it in from the supplier but it's here! I may not hide it in the Volvo's engine bay, I may wall mount it!

[Richard DAF Webmeister]

That is a work of art!

[swissdave]

The camshaft has been machined to match the Volvo one, shortened at the far end where the extension that drove the fan belt has been removed and shortened at the front to suit the Volvo timing sprocket. The front end was also drilled and a thread cut to accept the sprocket mounting bolt.
The only other thing that is needed is to fit a bearing into the cylinder block in the end camshaft journal as per the Renault 5 engine. I used the one out of my donor engine, the Volvo cam made a perfect drift to drive it out of the Renault block and iI drove it into the Volvo block with a similar sized socket.
The cam is now ready to fit once I get the pistons and liners swopped between the blocks.

[andrejuan]

Loving these Gordini updates

[jeroen]

oke dave i have also a alpine blok but i want to use the original blok so i have to put the blok mountings at the front.
it is already done in holland
but what more a problem is is the waterpump,did you ad aluminium at pump side and remove it on the other side?
otherwise the motor is overheating,because the pump is now on the other side.
jeroen from holland

[jeroen]

best dave,oke i'm using the 1400 Volvo engine,but is the camshaft and pistons and liners the same on the Volvo?
so i can than only use the camshaft and head?
thanks,forgive me for my enlisch normal i speak dutch
jeroen

[swissdave]

The Alpine/Gordini pistons are higher compression than the V340 and the cam is completely different as the valve sequence isn't the same.
You must use the Alpine camshaft and pistons with that head.

[remy555]

Dear Jorgen (& dave)
you should modify your head by cuting a part of it in the R5G water pump side and ad this part of aluminium on the other side. It could also be a part from your old R5G water pump or with your welding torch BUT be careful with temperature, you can destroy your head..
 Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted

[jeroen]

i already mentioned it:
but what more a problem is is the waterpump,did you ad aluminium at pump side and remove it on the other side?
otherwise the motor is overheating,because the pump is now on the other side.

[remy555]

no need to ad aluminium on the r5g pump side, just use the plate from dad engine (with temperature sensor if from daf/ volvo 66 or 343) and screw it , it's same size .

[remy555]

Attachment Deleted

[jeroen]

but that foto is waterpump side at the daf,now there is a plate? that shoud on the oter side!?
you have to ad and remove aluminium in the head because the pump is comming on the other side

[remy555]

You're right, this is a picture from same engine in A110 alpine, as an example, just to show you the kind of plate you're suppose to install on the clutch side (on the daf). On the 3 pictures i downlaoded, you 'll se Where you have to cut the head on the clutch side and how to re-install the little part of aluminium on the other side. I hope m'y explanations are clear

[jeroen]

best remy 555,did you use new pistons and liners?
what does cost such things?
jeroen

[remy555]

Yes, all new and good quality : m.ebay.fr/itm/251572176632?nav=SEARCH
I bought theese "bretille" chemise piston.

[jeroen]

how is the big camshaft wiel positionned on the camshaft?
it is a press wheel but the Volvo is different?

[remy555]

yes it is press on the R5G camshaft and skrewed on the volvo camshaft ( from the volvo ,keep the screw,ring, wheel and plate whith the 2 holes) , as Swissdave says : 

Posted by swissdaveJun 18, 2014 at 8:05pm
The camshaft has been machined to match the Volvo one, shortened at the far end where the extension that drove the fan belt has been removed and shortened at the front to suit the Volvo timing sprocket. The front end was also drilled and a thread cut to accept the sprocket mounting bolt.
The only other thing that is needed is to fit a bearing into the cylinder block in the end camshaft journal as per the Renault 5 engine. I used the one out of my donor engine, the Volvo cam made a perfect drift to drive it out of the Renault block and iI drove it into the Volvo block with a similar sized socket.
The cam is now ready to fit once I get the pistons and liners swopped between the blocks.

Or , you can directly machined the second wheel from the R5G camshaft (it won't move believe me!), then no need to drilled the camshaft . BUT i prefer the first solution.

[jeroen]

but how is the timing arranged? when it's a press wheel how do you know when the timing is right?
and than you use the 340 blok and double chain?
is that possible with the pullie?
thanks

[swissdave]

Hi Jeroen, it still uses a woodruff key, just the same as the standard cam and you line up the marks on the pulleys exactly as normal.

[swissdave]

Back on to the engine now that I'm no longer distracted by rebuilding the Volvo's suspension.
Last night the original liners, pistons and rods were removed from the Volvo 340 block. They needed a little tap from below to free them and then they came out easily leaving a fair bit of scale and rust in the top of the block which we hoovered out.




The liners in the Gordini engine were a different matter. The engine is older and had been stored for a long time and the liners were properly stuck in there. In the end I broke a liner so my plan of reusing those pistons and liners in the V block has been scuppered!
I've ordered a set of the Bretille ones suggested by Remy555 today and the head is off to the machine shop on Tuesday to have the waterways altered to suit it's new application. More news soon.

[mtjm]

Glad to see this is progressing. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it works out!

[swissdave]

I finally got the pistons and liners back from Scholar engines today, the engine build can now continue. Whilst waiting I have cleaned and/or painted everything else so that it's all ready to put back together.


Thanks to a timely post by Classic Swede www.classicswede.co.uk I have now got a suitable exhaust. They even put a rolled lip on the tailpipe for me



And finally at a overall cost of £1 I sold my standard Renault branded rocker cover on ebay and bought an Alpine Renault branded one to replace it.
Nerdy I know but I really wanted one.

[swissdave]

The liners are now fitted into the block, all very straight forward. On the B14 block the liners are sealed by rubber O rings rather than the paper gaskets on the Daf type B110 and B130 renault engines.
I have fitted new big end bearings despite the original V340 ones being fine as I have reused the original Gordini rods.
The crank journals are original as they were unmarked and as new.


The pistons are domed and project slightly at TDC as you can see in this pic:

[swissdave]

As mentioned earlier by remy555 the cylinder head needs modifying to work in a Daf layout. The water pump bolt pattern is already on the correct (for our use) front end of the cylinder head and the blanking plate from the standard Daf head will fit onto the rear of the Gordini head.
The issue is the water pump port shape in the head is cast into both ends but is removed from the rear on the Daf head (as the pump is on the front) but the front on the Gordini head.
The rear of the new head before the port is ground away:
dafcars.proboards.com/attachment/download/194

The rear of the head after:


The front of the head needs the port building back up. Rather than risking welding it I used a chemical metal instead.

Front with port missing:


This mixes to the consistency of plasticine,


I made my new port with a sausage of it then used a CD case as a level that I could see through to make sure it was all at the right height.


The result isn't pretty but it is perfectly level and seems very strong.

[swissdave]

Nearly there! The bottom end is done and ready for the cylinder head, I've used the V340 oil pump, the G5 dizzy drive dog with the G5 cam. G5 followers and pushrods.
The water pump housing will be taken from the cars original engine albeit with a new pump fitted, the crank pulley and flywheel are needed too.
Instead of the original plan for twin 40s, I will use the standard Gordini single twin choke setup.
The original Weber 32 DIR looks a bit past it so Eurocarb in Reading are supplying a new one in V340 spec but jetted for what I need that I can transfer the levers and brackets from the old one onto.