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Post by bobdisk on Sept 9, 2019 18:18:20 GMT
When I became aware of the new pump markings for ethanol (Now a legal requirement since 1 September), I was never aware that it was in petrol before so I thought I would have a look into it. It seems that the government says "a minimum of 5%" and wants to eventually up it to 10%, or more so look for E5 or E10 in the circle. Our and other older vehicles can be damaged by it. Wish I could remember the internet sites, so I could share them, at least one was a motor cycle forum. One person showed pics of jelly in the float chamber, and squashy rubber fuel pipes. I spoke to an owner of a Peel 50 (remember the little car that Jeremy Clarkson drove around BBC Television Centre) and he says the petrol tank, made of plastic and moulded into the fibre glass body, has gone soft, so he has fitted a metal tank. It is something that should be looked at by all of us with older cars. I will be putting ethanol tolerant components in my Daf (when I eventually get it going) and will be looking at my daily car, a 2000 BMW E46 323Ci. It has a plastic fuel tank, its probably ok, as there have been no problems, yet.. but needs to be checked. It seems to be up to the individual petrol station if you get 5% or 10% mixture, not the supplier of the fuel. Luckily, my local petrol station supplies 5% !
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Post by dafdaffer on Sept 20, 2019 19:23:36 GMT
very worrying, at least the dafs have steel tanks
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Post by zonker on Sept 28, 2019 5:33:48 GMT
It is my understanding that marine fuel stabilizers kill off the ethanol - here in the states we have a brand called "Sta-Bil" and I was recommended to use that with every tank.
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Post by bobdisk on Sept 29, 2019 11:31:36 GMT
It is my understanding that marine fuel stabilizers kill off the ethanol - here in the states we have a brand called "Sta-Bil" and I was recommended to use that with every tank. Would like to know more about "Sta-Bil", so Googled it. Enter "sta-bil ethanol fuel treatment". There is quite a lot of info, mostly from USA. This company and other companies do different fuel stabilisers for different purposes, including daily running and storage of petrol ("gas" in American!) for cars as well as marine.
Sta-Bil have a branch in this country, They only mention metals, not rubber or plastics in their text or video. Might be a good idea to ask them.
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Post by zonker on Sept 29, 2019 22:33:29 GMT
I wonder how much of the "ethanol damages older cars" urban myth is really truth. I live in California where we have had E10 for at least a decade, and I have run it straight in all my older cars, ranging from 1971 to 1982 (mostly weber carbureted Fiats) and have no problems of any kind with rubber components. Granted, I'm in a dry climate so water buildup in the fuel isn't really an issue here, but I'm hard pressed to believe that normal fuel safe neoprene cannot hold up against E10.
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Post by bobdisk on Sept 30, 2019 4:59:26 GMT
I wonder how much of the "ethanol damages older cars" urban myth is really truth. I live in California where we have had E10 for at least a decade, and I have run it straight in all my older cars, ranging from 1971 to 1982 (mostly weber carbureted Fiats) and have no problems of any kind with rubber components. Granted, I'm in a dry climate so water buildup in the fuel isn't really an issue here, but I'm hard pressed to believe that normal fuel safe neoprene cannot hold up against E10. Do you use a stabiliser like Sta-Bil ?
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Post by zonker on Oct 2, 2019 4:37:34 GMT
I wonder how much of the "ethanol damages older cars" urban myth is really truth. I live in California where we have had E10 for at least a decade, and I have run it straight in all my older cars, ranging from 1971 to 1982 (mostly weber carbureted Fiats) and have no problems of any kind with rubber components. Granted, I'm in a dry climate so water buildup in the fuel isn't really an issue here, but I'm hard pressed to believe that normal fuel safe neoprene cannot hold up against E10. Do you use a stabiliser like Sta-Bil ? Not yet - the previous owner of the DAF (John DeBruin) warned me to always use sta-bil. I've used nothing other than E10 in my Fiats since 2014.
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Ethanol
Dec 4, 2019 18:52:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by Nick the man with a daf.... on Dec 4, 2019 18:52:04 GMT
had to change all the pipes on the 46 as they seemed to agree and perish with incredible speed, i out this down to ethanol as all the pipes on the car had only been on it 3 years so if you want it to be reliable change the fuel pipes for modern hose
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Post by andrejuan on Aug 29, 2021 16:30:33 GMT
By now, probably all of us understand E10 and it's implications. Good info has also been published in Belting Along. Some people are suggesting classic owners should use high octane fuel as this is currently still E5. I don't want to go down that route as older lower compression engines do not thrive on 97+octane, and even E5 is not good for our classics.
So with this in mind I am going to replace all the fuel lines on my 66. I am hoping for advice and suggestions from anyone "in the know" or has already done this.
My plan.. Starting at the tank, new compatible rubber to replace the current rubber and nylon tubing all the way to the pump. then do the same from pump to carb, and inspect the pump and carb seals which look like plastic/hard rubber? IIRC the diaphragm in the pump is fibre? will that be ok? E10 will also affect soldered joints within the carb, I am hoping some kind of additive will help here. One question before I start, is there room to feed the tubing through the box section as the current nylon type is very narrow, it's replacement is likely to be quite thick. Recommendations for products/specs also welcome, I was thinking of Demon Tweaks for the line, and I presume low pressure is adequate?
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Post by Richard DAF Webmeister on Aug 29, 2021 20:22:29 GMT
This is very timely, and thank you for reminding people that we have given this a lot of coverage in the magazine. I am working on the next issue at the moment, and we have more info in that, but basically along the lines of what you don't want to do! I.e. use higher octane "super" petrol.
I'm a bit worried that some owners will think the dangers "don't apply to them" and also there are several who are on various social media sites but not members of the club, so don't see or read the warnings.
Good luck with what you do - keep us posted!
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Post by newwy66 on Aug 29, 2021 21:51:19 GMT
I thought the consensus of opinion was that 97 Super unleaded would be ok? I have started using it and still using a lead additive but not really sure about what is best. There are youtube videos of people extracting the ethanol by adding water then syphoning it. Not sure I want to faff around with that. I was going to replace the fuel lines anyway. Any recommendations?
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Post by bobdisk on Aug 30, 2021 7:04:04 GMT
The number in the circle at the pumps actually means "up to" 5%, or 10% ethanol. In the last couple of months I have started regularly using super grade petrol in my daily driver, the BMW, that fuel continues to be 5% ethanol. BMW say that all their cars from the 80s are ethanol compatible. I have noticed that it is more "smoother" running, but as important, I am getting 2-3 mpg better. So it will eventualy pay for the more expensive petrol. I do not see the harm in using a higher octane petrol in our Dafs, and other classic cars. Lead replacement additive is not really necessary in cars with aluminium cylinder heads. They already have hard valve seat inserts, as aluminium is too soft for valve seats.
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Post by Richard DAF Webmeister on Aug 30, 2021 18:35:43 GMT
I thought the consensus of opinion was that 97 Super unleaded would be ok? I have started using it and still using a lead additive but not really sure about what is best. There are youtube videos of people extracting the ethanol by adding water then syphoning it. Not sure I want to faff around with that. I was going to replace the fuel lines anyway. Any recommendations? Yes. More details in the magazine, but Club advice at the moment is to use "Super unleaded", ideally Esso - this seems to be the safest/most consistent one although it's probable that Shell and BP will roll out more of their super petrol. I expect that some people will try and "save pennies" by continuing to use standard petrol, but (not so longer) term, any "savings" made by using standard petrol with the ethanol in it, will prove expensive for lots of old cars, not just DAFs. Prepare for more "well known auction site sob stories".
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andrew
Likes DAFs
Posts: 1,101
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Post by andrew on Sept 21, 2021 7:41:15 GMT
Having just read the excellent article in the magazine on this subject, I had a thought (I really shouldn't think too much....) If some of us are going to be using premium fuel (99 octane) in the future, could we take advantage of the higher octane fuel to enhance performance? Cue: off to the Daf library.....
I found mention in an instruction manual for the mark 1 Daf 33 cars (wire operated low hold ratio, as opposed to electro-magnetic switch, no carburettor solenoid control etc) that gives the timing as 6mm before T.D.C., (quote)"or 8mm, if premium grade fuel is pumped"(unquote) Interesting......
My 2.5 litre Subaru certainly likes premium fuel and I think the M.P.G. is better as a result, so I thought I'd investigate if Daffy would similarly benefit. I've a copy of the later Daf 33 instruction book, albeit a 6 volt one, and any mention of ignition advancement if using a premium fuel has been deleted. Could this be because the later cars, of which my 33 is one, are fitted with environmentally controlled carburettors and so therefore timings should not be altered. I'm off to the Harpenden "Classics On The Green" event on Wednesday, so I'll take my stroboscopic timing lamp along and maybe do some tinkering. If my journey home is quicker, we'll know why!
Does anyone know if the timing on later Daf 33 cars an be advanced as is mentioned in earlier instruction booklets?
LATE EDIT: There IS mention of the 2 degree ignition advancement if using premium petrol in the newer Daf 33 instruction booklet, so I'm going to re-set the timing on mine some time soon!
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Post by starider on Sept 21, 2021 8:38:43 GMT
Hi Andrew, the amount of advance is mentioned in the DAF Service Bulletins. I did have these but several years ago passed them and several manufactory workshop manuals to Matt at Essex Dafs so perhaps he can sort it out,
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Post by starider on Sept 24, 2021 9:26:19 GMT
Hi, a bit of luck, found I had 5 gallons of petrol I had in stock for mower etc. and realised it was several months old, so E5. So it's half in the DAF Van and half in the Moggie Van until the additive situation becomes clearer. Living where we do there are no filling stations which sell super unleaded.
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andrew
Likes DAFs
Posts: 1,101
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Post by andrew on Sept 25, 2021 8:08:44 GMT
(slightly off topic) Your petrol-ANY petrol will be worth a lot more now....there was panic buying of any petrol around here late last night! Fortunately both the Daf and the Subaru were filled up earlier in the week, so I've over 700 miles "stored", be which time the panic will be over!
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