Drivebelt squeal

[spunkymonkey]

Had Betty out for another run today and noticed that, when pulling away, there's an occasional slight squeal from the drive belts. I'm assuming that this is a sign of low tension but, before I crawl underneath, can anyone confirm that it's not a "normal feature"?

Also, if they are a little loose, does that affect the ratios at all? Still seems a little high-revving which may just be a case of getting used to it but is a little nervous making for someone new to these. Having said that, it can't be too far wrong cos it wound itself up to a fairly steady 65mph today (with 3 onboard) and actually managed 70-and-climbing on a bit of downhill dual carriageway. Felt stable but a little noisy ;D

[Bob Scrivens]

Hi Joe as it has been standing around for a while without use, it can sound a bit rought, I think the pulleys may oxidise or the belts do not run freely but after a good run or regular use it seems to become a little better.
Also it does take a bit of getting use to driving them if you have drove geared car, the drive on the Daf is designed to get the engine to its best power setting and then the variomatic adjustes the speed of the car.
It is very difficult to judge the speed of the car by the engine, because some times the engine is running at a lower RPM at 60 then 30 MPH.
If you have 3 onboard at 65MPH with a 750cc I don't think you have to much wrong.
Drive it with your slippers on Joe, you can talk to the transmission much easier, and very rarely use full throttle.
Enjoy

Bob.

[spunkymonkey]

Thanks Bob and John That gives me a relaxed day today then.

There's a classic / vintage rally near Bangor tomorrow that we're going to have a look round, and thought it'd be fun to turn up in Betty, but was a little reluctant to take her if the squeal was bad news. It's the last chance to run out in her for a while because the temp insurance I got for the MOT runs out on Monday. Then I'm under orders to resist temptation till Sian passes her test - to give her an incentive to get on with it

[dafix]

Hello, I am digging up this 10-years old thread . I had a short ride with my DAF 46 (I didn't gave her a name yet ) this morning. I suddenly heard a squealing noise coming from the back, so probably from the belt. I stopped and I preferred to go back home. Then, no more squeal on the way back (a few kilometers). The road was quite wet, so I wonder if a squeal can happen on a slippery portion of the road. Since the beginning of November I have driven ~15 km once a week (not the best season to enjoy driving a vintage car, but I don't want to let it rest in the garage for the full winter and have bad surprises at spring ), I hope it's OK for the belt.

[andrew]

As your Daf 46 has only one belt it's all the more important to ensure the belt is in good order and adjusted correctly. All other Dafs and Volvos have TWO belts, so in the event of one belt breaking they can be driven gently on one belt, until both can be replaced. I would check the belt tension first and adjust that, since a belt squeaking CAN be a sign of in sufficient tension, although if the belts become wet they sometimes squeal. If you need advice to help you with this, the Daf Owners Club is the best place as well as this forum. Good luck!

[Bob Scrivens]

I would do a tension check as Andrew suggests.
All the Best for Christmas and the New Year Folks

Bob

[bobdisk]

I have been watching HubNut's project Invacar on YouTube. "What has this got to do with Dafs ?" You ask. It has a belt drive cv transmission similar to the Daf. I also has a 2 cylinder horizontal engine. He has had problems with his drive belt, in that it is making a horrible squealing noise. He treated the drive belt with a belt slip dressing maintenance spray. I think this might work on the Daf belts. I have ordered a spray for mine. Watch the YouTube videos;

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hubnut+project+invacar

ps, The heads off my 33 engine are away at an engineering company being cleaned up, and fitting hardened valve seats (for unleaded) and having the stuck exhaust manifolds removed and cleaned ready for painting. Hope to be on the road in a couple of months or so.

[bobdisk]

Also, here is the list of HubNut's project Invacar on YouTube.
www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hubnut+project+invacar

[andrejuan]

Hubnut is certainly a prolific Youtuber, and has some interesting videos, I don't think he would need much of a push into a 33. I know of only two other AC invacar enthusiasts, one of which is also a DAF fan, so the similarities are not totally lost. It might take me some time to make a dent in the Hubnut vids but they look enjoyable. I will start with the Ami6 as I have a soft spot for those. Thanks for posting this.

[starider]

Ah! Invacar, made of course by the Greeves motor cycle company....................starider

[bobdisk]

Dec 23, 2018 0:13:26 GMT starider said:

Ah! Invacar, made of course by the Greeves motor cycle company....................starider

Starider; This one is made by AC, who also made the Cobra !

[andrew]

ps, The heads off my 33 engine are away at an engineering company being cleaned up, and fitting hardened valve seats (for unleaded) and having the stuck exhaust manifolds removed and cleaned ready for painting. Hope to be on the road in a couple of months or so

I may have this wrong, but I was under the impression that all air-cooled Dafs had hardened valves anyway, and could run on unleaded fuel without adjustment. If the heads do need to be hardened I'm having those on my 33 done very soon!

[bobdisk]

Dec 23, 2018 10:12:14 GMT andrew said:

ps, The heads off my 33 engine are away at an engineering company being cleaned up, and fitting hardened valve seats (for unleaded) and having the stuck exhaust manifolds removed and cleaned ready for painting. Hope to be on the road in a couple of months or so

I may have this wrong, but I was under the impression that all air-cooled Dafs had hardened valves anyway, and could run on unleaded fuel without adjustment. If the heads do need to be hardened I'm having those on my 33 done very soon!

Not sure, but this car had been lying around in the damp for such a long time that the inserts were so rusty they could not be cleaned up and re used, so replacement seats are the only option. Valves are cleanable and will be reused. DVLA says the last time it was on the road was approx 1980.

[mike]

Hi All, Merry Christmas (as it's that time of year now...)

Just a quick comment on Hubnut's invacar. Transmission is similar to a Daf but not exactly alike as you might expect. Daf use vacuum control in the variomatic which is something invacar doesn't. I believe it's more of a centrifugal arrangement of some sort.

Anyway, I've watched the invacar series and Ian (Mr Hubnut) does reveal that the belt treatment was a temporary fix. Poor old TWK had quite tired belts which gave up the ghost not long afterwards. New belt fitted and all was well again.

I think he'd love a Daf having met and talked with him. Not sure he's there yet though. Wouldn't it be great to see one featured on his channel?


So, in signing off, just want to say I find this forum a wonderful resource. So pleased I found it. It has helped immensely with my ownership of a belted wonder (though mine is a Volvo 340GL). I am looking to get me another Daf at some point....it's only a matter of time.


Mike

[Richard DAF Webmeister]

I'm pretty sure that Hubnut is Ian Seabrook, who was/is a contributor to Classic Car Weekly and other titles.

He likes DAFs, especially air-cooled ones a lot, and a few years ago he had quite a long go in my 33 - with me as passenger! He has often hinted that he would like to get one one day.

[mike]

That's right it is Ian Seabrook. He was editor of Classic Jaguar until recently and he still contributes to Retro Japanese magazine.

A great guy, very genuine and a proper petrol head.

[triumph66]

He also contributes to Classic Van and Pickup magazine too.

[andrew]

Dec 26, 2018 10:08:58 GMT triumph66 said:

He also contributes to Classic Van and Pickup magazine too.

My "other" favourite motoring magazine-after "Belting Along", of course!

[dafix]

Hello and happy new year to all the DAF enthusiasts from either side of the Channel  !

Sorry to reply to you Andrew with a such a delay. Basically, I gave a ride to my 46 this afternoon (after I left her more than two weeks in my garage): no squeal heard ! Anyway, I will have soon or later to check the tension. I have the procedure to do it, but crawling underneath the chassis (which is not convenient. I will need to procure a pair of jack stands  ), I saw that the plate covering the transmission is held by two bolts, and my document specifies six of them. I will have a better look, I guess these bolts are not hidden...

[andrew]

Yes, it IS six bolts to hold the transmission cover onto the underside of the vehicle, although on 33 cars the cover is secured to other covers, all of them plastic, which then in turn are attached to the underside of the vehicle itself. Undo the two bolts and remove the cover completely-you can use the car with the cover off-as you'll be checking the belt over the next few trips and it's a pain in the proverbial rectal zone to keep fitting and removing it!

If the squeaking disappeared after leaving the car standing it might still mean the belt need tightening. Some belts, notably Roflex ones, squeak when first used, even when they're correctly adjusted, so it's possible your belt OUGHT to squeak during the first 100 yards and then calm down (mine do this). If it DOESN'T squeak on takeoff but DOES squeak later, then they might need adjustment. Another thought is that the ATF fluid in the power divider might need changing. Not a really difficult job, once you've obtained access to the unit.

[andrew]

Yes, it IS six bolts to hold the transmission cover on, although on 33 cars the cover is secured to other covers, all of them plastic, which then in turn are attached to the underside of the vehicle itself. Undo the two bolts and remove the cover completely-you don't want it falling off and you can use the car with the cover off-as you'll be checking the belt over the next few trips and it's a pain in the proverbial rectal zone to keep fitting and removing it!

If the squeaking disappeared after leaving the car standing it might still mean the belt need tightening. Some belts, notably Roflex ones, squeak when first used, even when they're correctly adjusted, so it's possible your belt OUGHT to squeak during the first 100 yards and then calm down (mine do this). If it DOESN'T squeak on takeoff but DOES squeak later, then they might need adjustment. Another thought is that the ATF fluid in the power divider might need changing. Not a really difficult job, once you've obtained access to the unit.

[Nick the man with a daf....]

had a fe chats with Ian when he was getting the transmission woes with TWC, hes a nice genuine chap for sure, he finally got some new belts form somewhere and as far as I know it has worked wonders for TWC and her cvt (changed some pulleys about too). On your 46 you need to make sure that you on only have the specified 2mm gap between the rear pulleys but also that the transmission is tightend up with teh pulleys absolutely square to each other, I used to use a long straight steel rule from one pulley to the other, also if the belt is loose you will find the car is very keen to rev and it will over-rev if you are not careful, good luck with your 46, I did over 40,000 miles in mine before I sold her earlier this year, im in a 44 now, completely different kettle of fish but pleasurable none the less

[starider]

Hi, ref.hardened valve seats,the air cooled engine was designed to run on low octane fuel[the old 2 star or lower]. When Unleaded appeared, DAF sent out a bulletin which said that there would be no need to do anything to the head or valves, but just to retard the timing very slightly[for the life of me I can't remember by how much, but only a degree or two]...............starider

[starider]

PS Regarding Unleaded,when it became available[sorry forced on us], one of the autodata companies published a pocket sized book which listed all the cars at the time and gave information on which cars would need new valves and seats ,those which didn't and all the necessary timing alterations needed. I wish I could find it but have moved home twice since then!!...............starider

[dafix]

Jan 6, 2019 17:08:13 GMT andrew said:

Yes, it IS six bolts to hold the transmission cover onto the underside of the vehicle, although on 33 cars the cover is secured to other covers, all of them plastic, which then in turn are attached to the underside of the vehicle itself. Undo the two bolts and remove the cover completely-you can use the car with the cover off-as you'll be checking the belt over the next few trips and it's a pain in the proverbial rectal zone to keep fitting and removing it!

If the squeaking disappeared after leaving the car standing it might still mean the belt need tightening. Some belts, notably Roflex ones, squeak when first used, even when they're correctly adjusted, so it's possible your belt OUGHT to squeak during the first 100 yards and then calm down (mine do this). If it DOESN'T squeak on takeoff but DOES squeak later, then they might need adjustment. Another thought is that the ATF fluid in the power divider might need changing. Not a really difficult job, once you've obtained access to the unit.

Hi, I checked the belt tension this morning. I confirm that on my 46 there are only 2 bolts at the back end to hold the plastic cover of the transmission (it went down when I removed this two bolts, the front end having tabs inserted in slots of the fixed part, forming a hinge). I found a gap between the pulleys slightly above 1.5 mm (I used a set of spark-plug gauges, not very convenient for this task, maybe I should make a special tool). The document I have (copy of a manual for DAF dealers in french, can be be downloaded here: s1.e-monsite.com/2009/02/03/54175344ecartement-courroie-daf-46-pdf.pdf ) specifies a 0.5-mm minimum gap. I drove again this afternoon, and everything looks fine, no bad noise. The only time I heard it was some weeks ago. It didn't last long and the road was wet. Perhaps I drove into a puddle and splashed the pulleys, but it is strange that water could reach them ...

By the way, do you mean by "power divider" the gear train downstream of the clutch, which allows to select between Drive/Neutral/Reverse ? It is interesting because I find no mention about this part in my manuals and I don't know which servicing it requires.

[andrew]

Your transmission doesn't have a "power divider" as such, since your car has only one belt. The power divider unit splits the power from the prop shaft to the TWO primary units on all Dafs, except the 46. It also selects forwards, neutral or reverse, through a link to the gear selector between the front seats in the car. In the 46 the primary unit takes the power from the prop shaft and selects the gear (forwards or reverse).

If your belt has become wet it might make them squeak, regardless of the tension setting, although the tension IS the critical thing with the Daf belt system.