Another Daf 33 Changes Hands!

[andrew]

I'm very proud to announce that I now own a Daf! After posting a few comments & questions over the last few months, the bug has bitten again (the first time was in 1979!) and I spent yesterday driving up from Barnet (chez Hutchings) to Derbyshire, to collect Joe's "little brown job" and tow it back "down south"


Image0160 by andrew353w, on Flickr

I towed it with my Citroen Xantia and hardly noticed it! 300 miles by lunchtime and a few celebratory beers in the southern sunshine afterwards! I suspect the Daf hadn't gone so fast, for so long in its life!


Image0161 by andrew353w, on Flickr

I've a whole heap of papers with the car, including MOTs back to 2002 and the mileage of 39,000 is genuine. I'm going to be doing a load of jobs on it, mainly mechanical ones and have an appointment to see a bodyshop to see about some restortion on the shell, but that's some way off yet. First thing will be an MOT, which I'll get done over the next few days. I'll keep you all informed....

[spunkymonkey]

Good to (finally welcome you to the PAD* club, Andrew Hope the tow home was lack of spare driver rather than problem with that car, seeing as Joe seemed to be using it pretty regularly up to about a month back?




* Proper Aircooled Daf

[andrew]

No problems with the car at all! I've already been for a spin around the local roads here in it & you're right, Dafs make you smile! I towed it back for 2 reasons: 1/ I have an A frame and a powerful car and 2/ It's probably quicker and cheaper than getting the train up & driving it back. My Citroen does over 30 mpg when towing and 33-36 on normal runs. Just a thought; if any member of the club wants a car moved I'm willing to help, for a reasonable reimbursement.

[pauldaf44]

Nah youd get there quicker driving the DAF and with a grin on your face. As im sure Joe will atest a 33 will cruise at 70mph and when towing you cant do more than 60mph + the 33 will do a similar mpg to your xantia

[33grinder]

Congratulations Andrew!

Yes they are fun - glad you're enjoying her.

At full pelt I'm averaging 30mpg in Gavina (although she does have a blowing exhaust and her timing is out. Crusing at 70mph is just about possible so long as there are no gradients involved. Gavina's speedo starts lying at those sorts of speeds - Satnav reads 70mph when Gavina optimistically says we're doing 76mph! ;D

[andrew]

I took "Pooh" for an MOT this morning and it failed, but only for lack of indicators (tell-tale light not working-hence the lights on the car weren't flashing) and one sidelight. In short- a pass really, given 10 minutes with a screwdriver! Although not MOT related, there are a number of other electrical things to sort out as well, but that's not a problem. It looks as if a previous owner has mucked about with the car's wiring at some stage, including a separate switch for the starter and horn.... but I'll fix it!

It was interesting to see underneath the car and the first thing I saw was that the tray under the variomatic was missing, so I could see the belts, which are clearly brand new! Excellent!! A new cover needs to be found at a later stage and I noticed that one of the primary pulleys had a little bit of rust on it; should I worry? I'm sure I read somewhere that the pulleys were originally stainless steel, but that later they became chrome plated and that these appear rusty over time.

Although the car is exempt from an emissions test, by virtue of its age, I tested it anyway, just to see how the engine was running. The engine would have passed a test for a much younger engine (1973-1991) so I'm pleased with that, too!

Driving to & from the test I noticed the transmission's reluctance to change up as the car builds up speed and to change down on braking. I did check that the pipes on the variomatic units were attached (which they were) and I'll be "blowing through the tubes" later to see if I need a new diaphragm (or 2!)

All in all I'm totally impressed with "Pooh" and I'm looking forward to having it up and running in a more everyday way VERY soon!

[andrew]

A quick update on "Pooh's" latest adventure: the defective indicators and sidelight have been sorted out; the sidelight bulb just needed to have the connections cleaned up & the indicators weren't working because the tell-tale light was not working, although gaining access wasn't easy! I dropped the steering wheel to gain access to the dashboard and found that at some stage in the past the wiring had been "altered" (& that's putting it charitably...) including a separate switch to operate the starter and an extra push-button for the horn. All of this involved running non-fused wires from the battery through the speedometer grommet (naughty!). With the use of a decent electrical meter and a set of crimpers I put the original feed to the starter solenoid back and put the earth lead back onto the dashboard, thus allowing the original horn switch to operate the horn, the indicators & the oil pressure warning lamp to operate correctly. It's amazing how one missing lead, namely the earth on the dashboard, can cause such problems! The giveaway was the fact that the fuel gauge swung over to "full" when I sounded the horn BEFORE I replaced the earth (& the horn sounded strangled) and AFTER I replaced it the fuel gauge stayed where it was & the horn sounded much better!

Hope this helps other members!

[33grinder]

Excellent! Does this mean an MOT pass beckons? Might you pay Essex DAFs a visit? Crikey! I'm sure Matt would very much like to be reacquainted with his first DAF...

[andrew]

"Pooh" passed her test today, with no advisories! To get the pass I'd replaced a side light, changed the flasher unit and fitted a new horn, that was SO quiet I didn't reckon the tester would consider it as a horn! Insurance was £86.40 for a year, as a cherished car, with 3,000 miles. Road tax is nil, so I'm now driving around like a trooper in "Pooh"!

I think (only THINK!) that she's not changing up as quickly as she ought; neither is she changing down on braking... I can foresee a visit to Essex Dafs soon! That said, it's a real pleasure to be back behind the (large) steering wheel of a Daf 33. IT MAKES ME SMILE!!!

[spunkymonkey]

We're here all weekend for impromptu opinions on vario changes, Andrew ;D

[33grinder]

Yes, pop on over Andrew!

Well done the pair of you.

[kenr]

Congrats on the MOT Andrew!

If you are up for it (with a bit of petrol money), might you be willing to pick up another 33 owner from North London and go daffing in Essex at some point? It would be very helpful re: enabling me to collect 'Vee the 33' and bringing her to her new North London home.

Cheers

Ken

[andrew]

Well, well, well, what a day we had at Duxford! It was "Pooh"'s first outing under her own steam (being towed down from Derbyshire doesn't count!) and after recently passing the MOT and getting classic insurance, we (that is "Pooh" and me) set off for Duxford. I've forgotten (as I've not driven a Daf for about 20 years!) just how much FUN they are to drive! Granted, they don't set the world speed record, but they can easily keep up with the traffic and my 33 cruised happily at 60-70, depending on the hills.

We met in the car park, and all had a chat about our cars and their behaviour; it wasn't long before everyone had opened Pooh's bonnet and had diagnosed a non-functioning change-down valve. So off we set, in convoy, to the badlands of Essex Dafs.... After passing through the border check at the Cambridgeshire/Essex frontier, we drove into Essex Daf's premises and Matt & Pete gave of their best to my car...

First thing was to get the tea on... Then we rummaged through the spares boxes for a 6 volt change-down valve... Which was found!!! We changed it, using some "fairy liquid" to ease the rubber grommets into place. Next the low ratio hold switch was replaced, resulting in the proper operation of the change-down valve.

Loads of fun, quite a lot of decent tea and friendships made! A GREAT day Daffing! I drove 200 miles in my car today, without it missing a beat! It has a few problems that need addressing but it's certainly on the road to getting better-THANKS, ESSEX DAFS!!!

[kenr]

Duxford is a good day out. Glad you had the experience of Essex Daffing and that the minor issues were sorted. There is a lot of tea consumed at Essex Daf Central, I do believe that tea flows through Matts circulatory system instead of blood. Did you see Vee? I got your pm Andrew, I shall be in touch!

Nice one.

Ken

[andrew]

An update on Pooh's movements (?) since last she visited Essex Daf's H.Q. I'm grateful for your comments re: my lack of brake lights, but having checked, I can assure you they are working O.K.

Now then, as to Pooh's vacuum problems, I've worked out the following (and the next bit is a bit complicated, to bear with me...) When the low hold switch is off (not lit) the connections in the switch allow the live line from the brake light switch that's activated when the brakes are applied (the white wire) to do two things:
1/ Illuminate the brake lights.
2/ Activate the low hold solenoid; a "click" is audible when it becomes live.

When the low hold switch IS on (lit) the feed from the ignition + to the low hold switch is switched to the solenoid regardless of the brake lights being on. Again, a "click is audible when it becomes live. The switch is needed, since if it were not there, activating the low hold switch would also put the brake lights on!

What's happening with Pooh? The solenoid works when the button's lit but depressing the brake doesn't make the solenoid work, but DOES light the brake lights.... Conclusion? The wiring in the low hold switch is faulty. It's a new switch, courtesy of Essex Daf, so investigations will continue. Watch this space!

Another problem I'm mentally resolving is the lack of change up vacuum. I'm buying a vacuum gauge soon, to help, but I wondered if the pipes feeding vacuum to the pulleys could somehow have been reversed. It would explain the strange noises on change up and down. That said, over 220 miles on a tankful means that there's not that much wrong, so again, I'll keep you all informed.

The important thing is to only change one thing at a time, or you don't know what you did that cured the problem!

[spunkymonkey]

If everything seems to be in good order then a likely culprit for the slow change up is the adjustment of the throttle operated vacuum valve (mounted on a bracket behind the carb). The book gives an engine speed (from memory, originally 3100 +-50 changed to 2750 +-50 by a tech service bulletin) at which it should just start to open, which you adjust by changing the length of the rod.

The adjustment isn't really fine enough to get it to spec so it's generally a case of get it about right then try it one turn either way (shorter to make change up happen quicker, longer to delay it) until it's right. Try shortening the rod by ONE turn and see what happens

[andrew]

Thanks for the diagram-really helpful in working out where the vacuum goes at different stages of driving a Daf!

An extra day off work today, so time to do some Daffing.... I've bought a vacuum gauge, which is practically essential if you want to sort out a Daf's problems. I've already had some success in finding why "Pooh" doesn't change up or down properly...

Attaching the vacuum gauge to the rubber pipe from the inlet manifold (the point that produces all the vacuum the car uses) revealed a vacuum of 180mm Hg, which didin't alter throughout the rev range. More importantly, it didn't fall off when the engine was switched off (well, it did, but it took AGES!) So far so good....

I then replaced this hose onto the low ratio solenoid, and took the rubber hose that joins it to the change up valve. When the low hold switch is off (unlit) the engine vacuum at this point is the same, which is as it should be, but switching the low hold solenoid on should lower this vacuum to zero, and it didn't, so that need investigating. Also when I put the hose carrying the vacuum from the low hold to the change up valve back in place & then measured the vacuum that would be sent to the belts, to assist change up, the vacuum was negligible, suggesting that the pipe seals are not too good, although what vacuum there was registered as the throttle was opened, not on tick-over, which is correct. As the hoses slide on the pipes without any effort that might well be the cause of the loss of vacuum.

I also need to buy a new brake light switch. Mine DOES work, but has a resistance in it; it puts the brake lights on but the low hold is not properly energised. It should click in the same way as when the low hold switch is operated, and it's not!

hope this helps any other 33ers out there! More tomorrow, when I have a proper day off, as opposed to an extra one...

[spunkymonkey]

If I'm understanding the first step you took correctly, you had the gauge connected directly to the manifold using the "main" vacuum pipe from the car?

If that's the case then holding vacuum when the engine is switched off can only be the pipe collapsing or breaking up internally (similar to brakes that lock on because of faulty flexi hoses). That would also tend to cause an unvarying reading because it'll suck maximum vacuum as she starts, which will be held as you open the throttle.

Not sure how that would affect the rest of the system but some 6 and 8mm fuel hose will sort it quickly enough. Replace all pipes and see what happens - at least then you'll know it's not leaks or blockages if the problem's still there

[andrew]

Thanks for that, I must confess I'd not thought of collapsed hoses and will pop round to the new Halfords in Whetstone tomorrow for some hoses & clips. More later!

[33grinder]

Ditto what Joe said!

There's no harm in replacing rubber hoses that could be 40 years old! Don't forget the rubber pipes at the other (vario) end. They can be a bit of a faff to fit Jubilee clips too as can the ones on the vacuum unit under the bonnet and having gone that route myself I'm not so sure that they are absolutely necessary.

[Bob Scrivens]

Hi Rich I find that ty-raps are just as good keeping the tubing on.

Bob.
P.S Back on line after 2nd heart attack.

[andrew]

I've made some interesting discoveries today! Starting from the beginning, I removed & replaced the hose from the engine inlet manifold & then measured the vacuum being produced; AMAZING!!! upon revving up the engine produced 400-500 mm Hg of vacuum-much more than yesterday! the needle also danced about on tick-over, too. Apparently this IS correct. Anyhow, I then fed the vacuum to the low-ratio valve & measured the vacuum being passed when the low hold was off (i.e. when the vacuum would be passed to the change up side) and I was only getting 180-200 mm Hg, and this was with new hoses and Jubilee clips. from this I can only determine that the low hold valve is either sticking or has a leak (perhaps caused through dirt in the valve?) The valve must work by having a spring to hold the valve shut and this is over-ridden by the solenoid when the low ratio is switched on. My solenoid seems to be OK, as when it's engergised the vacuum pattern from the change-down pipe is exactly as it is from the engine; dancing around on tick-over and building to 400-500 mm Hg on revving up.

So, today I have learnt that my valve has a leak when switched off but works fine when switched on. I also had the tracking re-set, thus making the car much easier to drive. I'm in the market for a 6 volt valve... any offers?

[andrew]

I've cracked it!!! The problem is, at least partially, solved!!! AsI said earlier, the vacuum seems to be at least partially lost somewhere in the low hold valve, so I decided (after 2 or 3 ciders!) to bypass it. I took the manifold vacuum valve & connected it directly to the change up valve. I then took S.H.M.B.O. ("she who must be obeyed" A.K.A. " 'er indoors") round to her friend's place, for an evening's Scrabble (=bottles of wine & discussions of husbands) The car sounded awful and never seemed to get out of bottom gear..... Ah ha, thought I, if the increased vacuum's making it stay in a lower ratio, reverse the vacuum! The result is a FANTASTIC car! All I did was attach the vacuum from the change up valve to the other (smaller) pipe leading to the Variomatic units and, hey presto, a car that sounds delightful, purrs along and behaves perfectly!

Tomorrow I intend to reverse the connections on the variomatic units and then reverse the pipe connections under the bonnet, which will put put everything back as it is now, except that the LARGER of the 2 pipes will be the change up vacuum, as opposed to the smaller as it is at the moment. Next I'll crack on with the change down side...

More cider... I'm happy!!!

[spunkymonkey]

Nice one It's quite common for the connections on these to get swapped around over the years and it can be a little frustrating to get them back as they should be - I still have to stop and think about what goes where!

You'll probably find that the back end is already plumbed correctly - the pipes into the vario are different sizes to match the pipes on the body so getting them wrong at that end would be quite tricky. If it had been completely mis-plumbed at the front end (where a lot of the pipes are the same size) you'd end up with much the same effect.

I've just taken some pics of Betty's (correct) plumbing a the front, I'll post them once they're shrunk enough for the web

[andrew]

Just taken "Pooh" for a run to the garage, for a good drink of unleaded; after all, if her owner is downing ciders in celebration of her repair the least I can do is let her join in! She's done 254 miles and has used 8.36 gallons, making her rate of consumption 30.4 m.p.g. Bearing in mind she's spent most of these 250 miles in the wrong ratio that's not TOO bad, I suppose!

[spunkymonkey]

Here you go. The one I'm holding out the way is the main pipe to the manifold, and the one on the far right that disappears off the picture goes to the air filter housing:

[kenr]

Nice one Andrew. Thanks for the picture Joe. I might actually do the replacement thing on Vee. It's only a couple of quid and worth doing IMHO. 8mm or 6mm hose?

Cheers

Ken

[spunkymonkey]

Some of each hose, Ken. You can squeeze 6mm onto them all but it really doesn't like going. From memory I think I got about 2 feet of 8mm and 4 feet of 6mm and had more than enough of both. At about £1.50 a foot it wasn't worth the time to measure up beforehand (plus it was a spur of the moment purchase )

[andrew]

I'm pleased (and not a little proud) to say that Pooh's vacuum system is now 100% working! I've repaired the vacuum valves, the low hold switch and the brake light switch. I now have a beautifully running 33, currently whizzing around the roads of North London and putting a BIG smile on the face of its driver (and gaining a few smiles from passing drivers too!)

I now know just how the vacuum valve works, right down to the 2 valves, the restriction on the change up side and where the rubber seals go. When I took mine apart I photographed every stage of it & once I'm organised enough I'll put the photos on the site and explain what does what.

[spunkymonkey]

Great news Andrew! It really does transform them when that side's working right - really must get the new input pipe seals into Matilda soon so she can have engine braking back!