Isto
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Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 20, 2021 10:41:36 GMT
Hi all,
Greetings to all Daffers from Finland! I thought I'd write here to ask for advice, since it looks like any and all questions regarding Dafs are answered here
We've actually had two Daf 55s in our garage for a few years. The reason there are two is, that the first sample turned out to be rotten out with the engine rusted stuck. By accident, we found another one with a workable engine that had been cannibalized in other ways. So the idea in the long run is to try to build one working sample for the Finnish roads..
Now the question is...I thought to get rid of our first Daf sample and strip it of all that is valuable. Could you please tell me, what parts should definitely be taken from the doomed sample for storage, and also what parts are not worthy of storing for future use!
Here you see the doomed first Daf on the right, and the project one on the left:
Thanks in advance for advice!
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Isto
Likes DAFs
Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 20, 2021 10:44:51 GMT
..looks like the picture I copied doesn't show on the thread..sorry about that!
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Post by starider on Jul 20, 2021 22:18:36 GMT
Basically anything that is in a reasonable condition,even the seized engine could yield parts in the future,head lamps,indicators,tail lamps etc.interior if in good condition, transmission units,suspension [front and rear]. Window glasses and body panels that are usable, wheels, tyres. Remember many of the parts are very difficult to find, so if you restore the better of the two and you strip and store the parts from the scrapper, you will always have parts you can use at a later date. If you descide to strip the rotten 55, take the spark plugs out of the engine and pour some Redex/penetrating oil into each cylinder put the plugs in finger tight and leave for as long as you can. There is a good chance the engine will free off. Good luck with the project/s.
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Post by bobdisk on Jul 21, 2021 4:49:50 GMT
Hi Isto, welcome to our Forum ! To post a picture, the easiest way is to use the "reply" in the top right, then "add attachment" that then appears in the top right, then "add files" in the window. Then select a picture from a file on the computer. After it has uploaded, click on "insert", then "done", and thats it!
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Isto
Likes DAFs
Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 22, 2021 7:37:29 GMT
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Isto
Likes DAFs
Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 22, 2021 7:51:08 GMT
Hi starider & bobdisk!
Thanks for the welcome and advice on adding pictures. As you can see, tried it right away..
So in your opinion, it would be a good idea to remove all parts from the scrapper. That makes a lot of sense, because, apart from the body, parts seem to be in pretty ok shape. I've already cannibalized engine parts from one to the other..
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Post by starider on Jul 22, 2021 22:28:29 GMT
Always worth keeping any useful parts.
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Isto
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Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 25, 2021 12:00:33 GMT
Here comes another question regarding the project..
To my best knowledge, I've transferred all necessary engine parts from the scrapper to the proper 55. I've replaced all spark plugs, distributor cap, rotor and cables, coil and condenser with new parts. The battery is in ok condition. All the wirings should be in correct order and we've measured and adjusted the correct gaps on the spark plugs and contact breaker.
The engine turns normally, but there is no spark?? What could be the cause..?
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Isto
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Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 25, 2021 12:30:37 GMT
And to clarify further, there is no spark coming from the coil. We've checked that the coil gets proper voltage from the battery also.
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andrew
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Posts: 1,101
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Post by andrew on Jul 25, 2021 20:04:19 GMT
Start at the beginning & using a good quality multi-meter, confirm the points are clean and act as a break in the circuit by using the meter to check they are, indeed, opening and closing, thus the resistance should go from "0" to infinity as the points open. Report back on this and if this is O.K., I'll try and think of the next option. How do you know there's no spark coming from the coil? The best method is USING A PAIR OF INSULATED PLIERS hold one end of the H.T. lead a few millimetres from the engine block and then crank the engine; you should see a spark flashing from the end of the lead to the block as the points open and close.
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Post by starider on Jul 25, 2021 20:25:01 GMT
I agree with Andrew, if there is still no spark from the coil HT lead it looks like the coil is dead, or possibly the new condenser is "duff"[no good].Also check the new rotor arm.There is also a small earthing wire in the distributor which could be broken.
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Isto
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Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 26, 2021 6:42:58 GMT
Morning!
Thanks again for replies. I've checked earlier that there's no spark from the coil just as andrew instructed. Also, I've tried three different coils (one new, two used from the old 55s) with the same result. How frustrating..
Also, I've tried two different condensers, one new and one old, no difference. The earthing wire in the distributor should be intact, as it was replaced with the new contact breaker arm.
Since I don't have a multi-meter yet, seems like purchasing one is the next step...while I'm doing this, any more ideas that I could check on the current setup?
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andrew
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Posts: 1,101
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Post by andrew on Jul 26, 2021 7:18:57 GMT
A quick explanation of a coil and how it works might help here:
When the ignition is switched ON 12 volts runs TO the coil, through the coil and FROM the coil, to the points. The points are really nothing more than a switch; when they're closed (joined) the 12 volts runs through the low tension wiring in the coil, to earth, through the points and the coil is energised. When the points open the circuit is broken and the field inside the coil collapses, thereby producing a HUGE voltage in the high voltage winding in the coil, which then goes to the distributor, and in turn to the sparking plugs.
Problems may occur if the points are not clean, thereby not passing the current when they're closed. The points need to meet fully when they close and make a clean break as they open. Pitted, greasy or mis-aligned points will make a spark very poor, if non-existent. A break in the wiring within the coil will not be visible, but a multi-meter will find it; there should be zero resistance across the "+" and the "C.B." terminals (low tension) and across the H.T. output and the casing of the coil.
Something I've just thought of: the coil IS bolted into the car isn't it? If it ISN'T, the coil won't work!
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Post by starider on Jul 26, 2021 8:42:31 GMT
Hi,there is a small braided earth wire between the base plate and distributor body which may have broken or missing.You should be able to check if the contact breakers are working by making sure the contacts are fully closed,then using a small piece of wood[for insulation], push the contacts appart,there should be a spark.
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Post by bobdisk on Jul 26, 2021 17:19:05 GMT
I am afraid I must disagree with you, Andrew. The metal case of the coil is simply that, a case. The 12v ignition is fed to the "ign" (or +) terminal, which is one end of the low tension coil. The high tension lead to the distributor centre, is one end of the high tension coil. The "cb" (or -ve) terminal is common to both ht and lt coils. The resistance of a 12v coil, measured on a multimeter from the - (cb) terminal to the + terminal is about 3.5 ohms. From the cb terminal to the ht terminal is about 10,000 ohms. If there is any resistance measured to the case from any of the terminals, it is faulty. The coil of the Daf 33 is mounted on the fan housing, which is plastic. If you do not have a meter, you can see if you have 12 v at the coil + terminal when you turn on the ignition by using a bulb, one side to the chassis, the other to the terminal. Then, change the bulb to the cb terminal. When the points are CLOSED, the bulb will be OFF. Turn the engine to OPEN the points, and the bulb will come ON.
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Isto
Likes DAFs
Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 27, 2021 5:51:10 GMT
A quick explanation of a coil and how it works might help here: When the ignition is switched ON 12 volts runs TO the coil, through the coil and FROM the coil, to the points. The points are really nothing more than a switch; when they're closed (joined) the 12 volts runs through the low tension wiring in the coil, to earth, through the points and the coil is energised. When the points open the circuit is broken and the field inside the coil collapses, thereby producing a HUGE voltage in the high voltage winding in the coil, which then goes to the distributor, and in turn to the sparking plugs. Problems may occur if the points are not clean, thereby not passing the current when they're closed. The points need to meet fully when they close and make a clean break as they open. Pitted, greasy or mis-aligned points will make a spark very poor, if non-existent. A break in the wiring within the coil will not be visible, but a multi-meter will find it; there should be zero resistance across the "+" and the "C.B." terminals (low tension) and across the H.T. output and the casing of the coil. Something I've just thought of: the coil IS bolted into the car isn't it? If it ISN'T, the coil won't work! Hi again, Went and took some pictures of the parts in question...here's the coil:
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Isto
Likes DAFs
Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 27, 2021 5:54:45 GMT
Hi,there is a small braided earth wire between the base plate and distributor body which may have broken or missing.You should be able to check if the contact breakers are working by making sure the contacts are fully closed,then using a small piece of wood[for insulation], push the contacts appart,there should be a spark. Morning, Took a picture of the distributor..do you mean the black wire in the pic? The base plate, wire and breaker were replaced with new parts earlier and I tried to mimick the setup on the scrapper 55, which still had the old parts intact..
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Isto
Likes DAFs
Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 27, 2021 5:59:51 GMT
Good morning Gentlemen,
I went yesterday and bought a multi-meter, but haven't yet had time to do the testing you proposed. Will try to get it done later today. Thanks for the tips and ideas so far!
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andrew
Likes DAFs
Posts: 1,101
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Post by andrew on Jul 27, 2021 7:51:33 GMT
I am afraid I must disagree with you, Andrew. The metal case of the coil is simply that, a case. The 12v ignition is fed to the "ign" (or +) terminal, which is one end of the low tension coil. The high tension lead to the distributor centre, is one end of the high tension coil. The "cb" (or -ve) terminal is common to both ht and lt coils. The resistance of a 12v coil, measured on a multimeter from the - (cb) terminal to the + terminal is about 3.5 ohms. From the cb terminal to the ht terminal is about 10,000 ohms. If there is any resistance measured to the case from any of the terminals, it is faulty. The coil of the Daf 33 is mounted on the fan housing, which is plastic. If you do not have a meter, you can see if you have 12 v at the coil + terminal when you turn on the ignition by using a bulb, one side to the chassis, the other to the terminal. Then, change the bulb to the cb terminal. When the points are CLOSED, the bulb will be OFF. Turn the engine to OPEN the points, and the bulb will come ON. OOPS! Sorry! 100% fail! I can only offer "extreme solutions" as an excuse! And her's the irony; I've only just had my 33's coil and cowling off, to check the engine mounting, so I ought to know about the coil casing NOT being an earth!
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Post by starider on Jul 27, 2021 10:01:32 GMT
Hi, there should be a braided wire[with no plastic covering] which is the earth between the base plate and distributor body.There is certainly plenty of advice[perhaps a "prize" for the correct solution!!].
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Isto
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Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 28, 2021 5:10:56 GMT
Hi, there should be a braided wire[with no plastic covering] which is the earth between the base plate and distributor body.There is certainly plenty of advice[perhaps a "prize" for the correct solution!!]. Morning,
Looked at the distributor yesterday, but I can't find this braided wire you're talking about...neither does it show in the exploded picture on the Haynes manual..? Isn't the base plate fixed to the housing with the three screws seen in the picture?
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Post by starider on Jul 28, 2021 8:42:51 GMT
Hi, I could be wrong,it's many many years since working on 55s. The best check is to set your multimeter on ohms and ensure there is a zero reading between the base plate and body.
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Isto
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Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 28, 2021 11:51:14 GMT
Hello, Yes, now I've checked and there's zero reading between the base plate and distributor body.
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Isto
Likes DAFs
Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 28, 2021 12:39:57 GMT
I am afraid I must disagree with you, Andrew. The metal case of the coil is simply that, a case. The 12v ignition is fed to the "ign" (or +) terminal, which is one end of the low tension coil. The high tension lead to the distributor centre, is one end of the high tension coil. The "cb" (or -ve) terminal is common to both ht and lt coils. The resistance of a 12v coil, measured on a multimeter from the - (cb) terminal to the + terminal is about 3.5 ohms. From the cb terminal to the ht terminal is about 10,000 ohms. If there is any resistance measured to the case from any of the terminals, it is faulty. The coil of the Daf 33 is mounted on the fan housing, which is plastic. If you do not have a meter, you can see if you have 12 v at the coil + terminal when you turn on the ignition by using a bulb, one side to the chassis, the other to the terminal. Then, change the bulb to the cb terminal. When the points are CLOSED, the bulb will be OFF. Turn the engine to OPEN the points, and the bulb will come ON. Hi again, Now I've got some readings... The - terminal to the + terminal turned out about 2 ohms. From the - to the ht terminal I got about 9k ohms. When checking the resistance from the terminals to the case, the - and + terminals showed approx 0, but measuring from the ht terminal to the case showed 9k ohms! What do you think?
This is the new coil that I was measuring.
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Isto
Likes DAFs
Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 28, 2021 12:43:16 GMT
A quick explanation of a coil and how it works might help here: When the ignition is switched ON 12 volts runs TO the coil, through the coil and FROM the coil, to the points. The points are really nothing more than a switch; when they're closed (joined) the 12 volts runs through the low tension wiring in the coil, to earth, through the points and the coil is energised. When the points open the circuit is broken and the field inside the coil collapses, thereby producing a HUGE voltage in the high voltage winding in the coil, which then goes to the distributor, and in turn to the sparking plugs. Problems may occur if the points are not clean, thereby not passing the current when they're closed. The points need to meet fully when they close and make a clean break as they open. Pitted, greasy or mis-aligned points will make a spark very poor, if non-existent. A break in the wiring within the coil will not be visible, but a multi-meter will find it; there should be zero resistance across the "+" and the "C.B." terminals (low tension) and across the H.T. output and the casing of the coil. Something I've just thought of: the coil IS bolted into the car isn't it? If it ISN'T, the coil won't work! Just measured this...zero resistance across the + and - terminals, but measuring across the ht output in the center and the casing of the coil showed approx 9k ohms. This is a new coil, but could it be broken?
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Post by starider on Jul 28, 2021 15:54:50 GMT
Probably not the problem, but make sure there is an earth cable between the engine and the body/chassis of the car. There used to be a problem with Morris Minors when the engine to chassis braided cable broke and when the starter was used the engine earth became the choke cable which often became hot and the plastic coating melted rendering the cable useless. If you have a length of wire with a clip each end you might try clipping one end to the + terminal on the battery and the other to the coil body/bracket
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andrew
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Posts: 1,101
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Post by andrew on Jul 28, 2021 15:55:10 GMT
It seems the coil's readings suggest it's O.K. Right then, next step is the points themselves: Here we go.....
1/ Remove the sparking plugs. I'll explain why later....
2/ Disconnect the thin wire that runs from the coil to the distributor at the coil terminal. This terminal is usually marked "C.B.", standing for "contact breaker" on the coil and connect this thin wire to one of your multi-meter leads.
3/ Connect the other lead from the multi-meter to the distributor body. Set the meter to the highest reading (usually 2M ohms) and turn the engine over by turning the fan (NOW you'll understand why the sparking plugs are out...)
4/ You should see the meter going from "0" to infinity as the points open and back to "0" as they close. Watch the points to confirm they're opening and closing.
5/ If you have any other "odd" readings..... tell us!
Hope this helps!
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Post by bobdisk on Jul 28, 2021 17:07:54 GMT
Is the coil mounted on the metal body of the car? If it is, disconnect it and remove it. Repeat the meter readings from the terminals to the metal case. It should be infinity from all terminals. If there is any resistance showing, take it back and get another! There is probably a reading to the coils case with it mounted on the car because it is going through closed points.
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Isto
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Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 29, 2021 8:14:46 GMT
Morning, Just went and removed the coil from the metal mountings on the engine. The new readings showed indeed infinity from all terminals to the case. From the - to the ht terminal I got about 9k ohms. So does this mean the coil is alright?
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Isto
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Posts: 26
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Post by Isto on Jul 29, 2021 8:16:28 GMT
Next then I'll work on andrew's advice...stay tuned!
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