Doing it properly vs doing it at all

[pyoorkate]

Okay,

So local welder number 2 came by yesterday - and having said on the phone that he does do 'cut out and weld in new', he doesn't. My guestimate of 250-300 quid for 'mot grade' welding seems about right (he reckoned around 300-350, depending on how much rot is lurking). But at the end of the day it's MOT patches.

Imho MOT patching is likely to hasten the demise of the (currently fairly unmolested) floor and sill that's currently rusty and will be covered over with patches, seam welded as the might be, but given that he's only going an inch in to good metal is that that concerning; because at the end of the day you'd have to cut that out anyway doing a proper job...

I'm going to give one of the local bodywork shops a ring today, but I suspect their quote will be way beyond the value of the car (which hasn't necessarily stopped me before) and more importantly beyond the level I can afford...

The question before me is - do I patch it up and have a running car that needs proper restoration (by someone else) later - or do I let somoene else grab it now who can do the job properly and look out for another? (if that red 55's still available, that'd do nicely, just getting it back would be a pain).

[daf44]

hi kate.

My advice would be to keep the one you have.
At least you know what needs doing to it. Another car could be worse.

if he is only welding an inch into good metal, could you get the work done now to get the car up and running and then replace the patches one at a time properly when you can afford to.

i know this costs more in the long run, but that way the car is useable now and done properly over a year or two if you want.

good luck.

paul44

[pyoorkate]

Thing is - and this has a massive bearing on this - we're intending to emmigrate to Canada in a year's time. We're already taking a Morris Minor with us (and potentially at least one MZ), so it's unlikely that the DAF is going to come with us (sadly). But I also rather like it and don't want to kybosh it's chances of getting a proper resto by patching it up and using it...

[spunkymonkey]

Difficult call, Kate. John is right that "right first time" will save a lot of potential work in the future. Having said that, even if you're passing it on, you're more likely to find someone who'll take on the re-work if you've got a roadworthy car to offer in the first place.

If a prospective owners doesn't need to trailer it home and find space to have it sitting then the market is open to a lot more people! Most owners (me included!) would love to do a full, concourse standard, rebuild but how many really have the time, money and facilities? And how many cars taken on with that plan eventually rot away in someone's garage?

Patches that have been done well and protected immediately can last a surprisingly long time and any future rust will be limited to the area that would need cutting out anyway. Especially on floors, where both sides can be accessed for sealing afterwards. They also stop the car becoming another permanent fixture under dust sheets in a corner!

[ericthered]

i have been restoring cars for 30 years and patches will devalue the car (Money wise and as a desirable car) . doing it right or leaving it as is is for someone to do properly is the only real way to go.
Dafs are going to rise in value! ;D what with the petrol situation and the fact that small classics are desirable to the everyday guy (or gal), as the Messerschmitts and bubble cars etc get to silly prices (as they are now) people will hunt for an alternative quirky classic, step in Daf!!

i am currently spending a lot more on my 33 than its worth, BUT, i will be using it and playing with the engine to get 100mpg out of it, it will pay me back one day.

(when i have got the car on the road and hit 100mpg i will give away the info on how to do it).

if you are not taking the car to Canada why not give it to a home that will do the work correctly?
you will save cash on repairs :)and the new owner will be able to spend more time and money on the car cos it cost nothing if you see what i mean.

best wishes,
Eric.

[spunkymonkey]

Totally agree in principle, Eric, BUT - the fact is, these DAFs are not bubble cars (yet) and anyone who's likely to be willing to do a full resto is probably already on this site. There's only so much that select band of enthusiasts can do. Look at the difficulty in finding someone to save that 55 from the crusher!

On the other hand, a tidy (if not immaculate) on-road car is far more likely to find someone willing to take it on, fall in love with it, and do the work. It's also a rolling advertisement for the marque which can encourage more people to take an interest.

Yes, patching devalues - but no more than the rust holes do anyway - but it also keeps the car on road, visible, and less likely to suffer any of the mechanical problems that a laid-up car inevitable develops. They also devalue!

[ericthered]

i know what you mean and theres + and - for all options, and yes the Daf is not a bubble car but my son and his mates (all about 18) think the Daf is "cool" and "retro" .

point being that lets be honest most Dafs are a bit of a "box" when it comes to styling, but the older they get the older they look and that is appealing, especially the cost of owning and running, and you can actually use them! i have had a Messerschmitt and they are totally impractical, not only that but they must be one of the most dangerous cars to drive! if they were made now they would be banned on UK roads! even in India i dont think they would be much used!

you may well be right about the MOT etc, to me the work is just a job that needs to be done and i hate working on cars that have been patched up, it makes things harder to do.

need to get 007 to use a Daf in the next film!! LOL ;D

anyway, hope it gets saved

Best wishes,
Eric.

[pyoorkate]

The question has been answered

Got a semi-proper resto bloke to come and look - his first words were "So, can you get sills for these" - and a plan of action has been formulated.

Assuming I can get sills (I thought I saw them on here) then he's happy to do it for 50 quid more than MOT patch bloke

So, now I go hunt for the post about sill pressings.

[howard]

Good variety of answers there. A DAF is for life, not just for Christmas, as I've found out to my peril. And they certainly appear to breed very quickly in my workshop.

I would HAPPILY step in any minute of the day to rescue every homeless DAF, and have certainly tried to do so in the past - but I have to be practical. If not always sensible!

I agree with doing it right or not at all. This is why progress with mine have been pretty slow. If I can't do things myself, I will either wait until I can or find someone who can. I could not stand ruining such scarce cars as DAF 32's or the lovely 66 Coupe. Well, any DAF, really!

Bit of a box, Eric? I think the 32's and 33's are very pretty cars, and to me 66's are no less so than an Escort Mk2 or Golf Mk1. I know I am totally biased but I love each and every sight of every little bit of them. I DO believe DAF's will go up in value now that they are no longer thought of as a car for the elderly and disabled. Years ago, I was a member of the Allegro Club International, and the cars were still derided then, but the club had more than it's fair share of enthusiastic youngsters. I am certain that this will happen sooner or later to people who want cheap and characterful transport. It's another reason I don't scrap cars unless they have absolutely had it - when they're gone, that's possibly one more enthusiastic owner being denied.

I was told that there is a DAF that goes to Bath Microcar Club meetings - anyone know who owns this one? It's not me!

Good luck if you're planning on going to Canada, Kate - I've never been but would love to. I plan to go abroad soon, to annoy that Mr Denning, and litter the Brittany countryside with little bits of Holland. Well, for what I pay in workshop rent I can buy a sizeable place there (and don't think I haven't considered it!) - in fact, I know of a four bedroom house, complete with bar/shop, ex-Citroen dealership showroom workshop and forecourt for less than £80,000. Fuel pumps included!

Marvellous.

[spunkymonkey]

Agree about the cool and gaining interest bits - Sian's teenager did a "you must be joking" when she saw ours but, in the past week, a green 33 has appeared on campus and she's seen the beige coupe that I mentioned elsewhere belting around. Now she "wouldn't mind one" as her first car!

Also agree about bodge repairs that can't be undone later. But careful patching shouldn't cause damage beyond the original rust so, as long as you're willing to accept that it'll need to be re-done "properly" at some point, I've never had a big problem with them.

Then again, I (fondly) remember days when you could braze patches for MOT Oh, and using manual arc on bodyshells that were thick enough to take them. Ahh, them were the days.....

Kate, glad you've found a sensible quote for the nicer job - you do realise a couple of jobs like that would pay for a decent welder and lessons to use it

[Bob Scrivens]

Kate
Like most things in life, if you don't use it, you lose it.
And with mechanical thing's they need to be used.
Get it running and enjoy it, they are great fun and really like to be used.
I love Canada its a Great Country and People, enjoy that to.

Regards Bob.

[pyoorkate]

Howard - Say hi from me, to him. We were going to see about popping over to see him once the Minor's back (or, hell, when the DAF's going!), but at the moment I'm working about 2 extra shifts a week just to pay bills...

Joe - yeah. I was going to learn on Brick (the Viva), but I'm just too short of time at the moment (and it's up for sale now; if it doesn't sell then I'll have to get it sorted too ). I can write my name in Weld (which is apparently a good sign for learning), and I can braze pretty well (heh) but at the moment I'm renovating a 1940s terrace - and both time and money are somewhat short on the ground (I'm also getting civilly partner'd this year too).

Bob - I've always been a great believer that cars are there to be used. Look after them certainly, but none of my vehicles are dry weather. They've all had to live outside (and now I don't have a garage either!) and work for a living. The viva and the minor have both averaged about 15k a year. The DAF should be treated a little more gently, since Kathryn'll be using it the most.

John - Heh, don't tempt me. I tend to fall for cars (and bikes) and would love to take a li'l DAF with us. Well, assuming it's nice to drive. All we've done is go up and down the driveway! But given the number of LHD Daf's around it'd make more sense to take an LHD one than a RHD one. Even the minor'll get LHD'd before shipping out As to why Canada - it's a gorgeous place; I really love it there... and my partner's American, but I don't want to live in the US (because I am a very strong believer in universal health care free at the point of delivery), and because I'd like to get paid enough to live on, which the UK seems in no hurry to do for nurses (bitter rant available on request).

[veeruk]

Hi Kate, I am in Luton and I own Little Belter (a 1972 DAF 33) If you want, I could come over and we can go for a drive. You could even drive it if you want to get the feel of it. It's a bit smaller than the 44 but at least you'll get an idea. I bet that you will love it. I sympathize with you with 2 jobs, work on the house and the cars. Pretty much the same here. My partner is good at gardening but that is where it stops. Not his fault that he isn't mechanically minded. I have just replaced the cilinderhead on his 106 diesel and is about to be started today. I have a 66 that needs to be stripped (half way there) and shared amongst other owners for donor parts. The other 66 is in my garage right next to another 33 which is stripped in and out ready to be worked on. I have a 2CV as well but this is in mint condition. Life is getting more expensive including petrol, diesel, gas, etc. I might have to put the brakes on restoring cars as it can (and will) get expensive. But in the end I find that it is money well spent. I have rented 2 extra garages to keep them all dry ( I have 2 of them in my own garage) and it's b****y expensive lol.
Anyway, the offer is open if you want to get to drive a DAF sometime.

[pyoorkate]

That would be good, actually! Just to meet someone else with a DAF would actually be kinda nice too

Don't I know about the increasing expense of life (everything, actually); I used to be able to comfortably (well, reasonably) run my minor and an MZ - now I struggle to keep up with costs for that

Unfortunately, since I'm selling the Viva atm we can't make it up to Luton (the MZ's not really very well, either!) until either the Minor's back (3 weeks), or the DAF's done (ironically)!

[veeruk]

Hey Kate, my e-mail address is [e-mail] Send me an e-mail and I can come up to you with Little Belter. When you have sent me an e-mail then I'll give you my phone number or send me yours. It's a bit too exposed to post it on here.

[dillyman]

As far as I can see my '72 44 Estate doesn't have rust underneath anywhere. The first owner had thick underseal and full Ziebart teatment done before delivery. Should I leave well alone or prod about in case thee are horrors beneath? I live by the seaside and Dilly has to sleep outside the house - but it doesn't seem to have harmed her much in the time that I have had her- about five years I think. She gets used daily as a shopping basket and tip visiter - my dustbins fit in easily! I'm beginning to feel a bit guilty that I am using a car in such good condition for such mundane things. I think they look great and not a bit bricky. And what wonderful all round vision from within the estate has. Please tell me how to get 100 m.p.g. Perhaps the freewheel from my old Rover would help!

[dafdaffer]

well marcus, you have the only mk2 daf 44 estate that i know of and the last time that i saw it it was imaculate,

but using it may be better than leaving it to sit in a garage.

it will be nice to see it again

Paul

[daf44]

hi all.

don't worry about using dilly for mundane things.
I've got the last known mk1 daf44 and use it regularly, dropping the kids off, shopping etc etc.
Cars are designed to be DRIVEN. It does them more good than parking them up for weeks or months on end.

As for the underseal, i would not prod through the underseal too much, but a 5 inch section cut of the end of a wooden broom handle as great for testing the underneath of the car for weak spots without damaging the underseal. Hit the underneath of the car and listen for a solid thud all over.
If it goes THUNK (or through) then it needs further investigation.

Happy Driving.

paul44

[howard]

It's high time I posted pictures of the latest 33 I've taken on. I know I should be carrying on with the others, but don't stop me! I've found three minor rust holes (one above a jacking point, and one either side under the bumper where the underseal has lifted and let in water). Hope to make a tidy job of these. It has been filled before on one wing, before being hit in the same place again!

Elderly drivers, psssssh.....

I'm having fun, and that's all that matters!

[pyoorkate]

I just wanted to say a big thankyou to veeruk for trecking all the way down to Slough in exchange of only a cup of tea - and a poke at a rusty 44

Thank you so much for letting us go out in it, so we know what we're getting ourselves into; I do fear I'm going to enjoy driving the DAF a little too much though

[veeruk]

Too right Kate. I enjoyed the drive down. Even though we got stuck in a jam for about 20 mins, a variomatic is just so easy in situations like that. No clutch to control for ages, just relax that left foot and hand. She behaved very well and she is looking forward to a drive to Rotherham next weekend to visit my sister. You can call me Alex by the way (he he).
It was nice to meet you both.

[dafdaffer]

Hi Alex, i use my left foot for the brake as i cant get my right one all that way over without crushing vital parts ;D

i do it without thinking about it, all goes well untill you get back into the euro box and press the clutch instead of the brake while doing 60mph + into a corner

Paul