water4gas

[veeruk]

I was browsing through my neighbour's Mercedes magazine and I stumbled on an article which was called water4gas. It explained how a person had made this contraption from a simple coffee jar, nails, water and electric wire. It creates hydrogen gas instantly when you drive to "help" your car run when it burns petrol or diesel. He said that it made his big Mercedes engine run better but has had no time to check on the m.p.g.
The website address is www.water4gas.com Have a look and see what you think. If it works then it could mean cheaper fuel bills.

[littlebelter]

Someone on this forum was experimenting with something similar to this a few months ago.
It certainly wasn't a mega-bucks cost though.

Can't remember who it was.

Cheers P.H.

[spunkymonkey]

Interesting idea, and it could (just about) conceivably give a net benefit if it does help complete combustion of the petrol. But it'd be interesting to know just how much H and O you'd need to be producing to achieve that.

Anyone who's ever played with water, a battery charger and a couple of electrodes will know that it takes a lot of current to get it gassing well. On a 6 volt system I'd guess you'd be looking in the region of 8 - 10 amps to get anything beyond a few bubbles on the electrodes. That's quite a hefty extra load for a Daf's dynamo......

[stefan]

What you make is called browns gas, i have looked into this alot and most people have said the extra load on the electrical system means bit like dynos or alternators need changing about every year with average milage with little or no gain in mileage but the engine usualy runs a little smother.

[daf44]

hi.

i was bored one afternoon and actually made one of these units at a total cost of 37p for the bicarb added to the water to make it work.
the unit pulled about 5amps and made about 10 litres of gas an hour. this may give a mileage increase of 1 or 2 MPG but on a 6v system would probably not get enough power.

One thing not mentioned on this site is that browns gas is HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE. one mistake and your coffee jar gas generator turns into a very powerful shrapnel grenade.

the figures quoted on the various websites are meaningless.
if you look closer, the figures are based on someone using the gas generator AND following their improved driving techniques.

I would not bother fitting a unit to the car.

paul44

[stefan]

I agree john but it is the age old If. Your thoughts are the same as mine IF it produced a 10% in crease i would fit it to all my cars, When I looked into it i was driving petrol 4x4s as my daily doing about 13mpg with off road tyres.
The more I looked the more pointless it became, nice idea though.

[jeremy]

Spunkymonkey hit the nail on the head. The only benefit can be if the hydrogen helps the burn efficiency. There is some evidence that LPG (propane) can have this effect in diesels.
Fundamentally, you can't have perpetual motion. If you could take energy from the engine, convert it to electricity at 100% efficiency, split water into H2 and O2, burn it again to recreate water and the same energy, then recover all the energy in the engine to use it agin to drive the dynamo then you would not have created any more energy. Since the engine is only 30% and the dynamo not much better we are back to snake oil.
Jeremy

[spunkymonkey]

Funnily enough, I was having a look through The Sports Car Engine by Colin Campbell (who I'd trust far more than any internet blogger on the subject!) and one of the factors he gives for loss of combustion efficiency is dissociation of water in the combustion chamber to free oxygen and hydrogen. Apparently it happens spontaneously at the pressures and temperatures involved.

That does beg the questions:

(1) how does adding extra O2 an H2, burning it to produce water, then having it spontaneously dissociate again give any benefit?

(2) Seeing as the products of dissociation are 2H2 + O2 (same as electrolysis), if there's a benefit to combustion in some other way, surely the water dissociated inside the engine will give that benefit anyway?

[ericthered]

hi all,

it was me that has been playing with browns gas and hydrogen cells for about 12 years!!!), they do work but to get good results you need lots of amps and it does put a strain on the charging system.

i put some of my cells and results on my daf 33 site....... (under hydrogen cells)

www.daf33.piczo.com

ive spent quite a lot of cash over the years on parts for experimenting and trying to get a car to run on water alone, i am sure i know how to do it but finding the right frequency's on the HF sound generator (a bit like microwaves) and the right high voltage/ voltage frequency is like looking for a needle in a haystack as theres so many combinations.

i get disheartened and leave it for months (and years sometimes!) and go back to it when i get an idea or inspiration.

someone will do it one day and probably have already , a gallon of water contains enough energy to drive a car around the world once! thats a fact!

Best wishes,
Eric.

[stefan]

If you can get it to run on water alone then you would be a rich man hope you manage it.

[ericthered]

hi Stefan,

i dont know about rich?

more likely to end up dead! lol

if anyone ever does it the best thing to do is post the info on the web, that way theres no point in doing away with the inventor!

no cash from it but at least you would be the guy who did it! (and still alive to enjoy the Nobel prize!

theres tons of stuff on the web that promises free energy but most of it just trash (but it looks good!).
there are some ways of getting free energy for your house etc but its very impractical (unless you own about 3 miles of flat land! lol

best wishes,
Eric.