Sometimes marketing is everything

[spunkymonkey]

I was browsing for stuff CVT-related and came across this on the Bosch Van-Doorne Transmissions site. They're the current incarnation of the variomatic, directly related (through the Van Doorne bit) to Daf:


Non-slip traction between the belt and pulleys enables the CVT to deliver high dynamics and power from the engine to the road. And: the sporty driver can still enjoy predefined transmission ratios, too!


So, let me get this straight...

You design and build a continuously variable transmission that can guarantee the engine is working in the best part of its power-band at all times - hence giving the maximum possible performance.

You then arrange it to change between artificial "pre-defined ratios" like a normal gearbox does thereby losing all of the one major benefit the system offers. this is to appeal to your"sporty" customers who want to hear traditional sounds from their engine and feel surges on the change even though this will mean a loss in performance!

Why do engineers even bother?

[pauldaf44]

The sadness of this is making me feel sick a "sporty" driver like there describing would be happy with 7 litre V16 bolted directly too the wheels of a lawnmower with no gearbox or clutch they don't deserve a the wonder of engineering that is a CVT.

[spunkymonkey]

Oh, forgot to mention - they also "engineer in" creep when standing still like a "real" auto has. There goes another advantage out the window!

[Richard DAF Webmeister]

'tis true. All down to marketing to appeal to the masses, and appeasing the (often very ignorant but influential) motoring journos and presenters.

And I'm a marketing and communications chap!!

[pauldaf44]

Bah you wont see me with one I'll stick with the real thing thank you very much.

I have seen this in lectures though the general public is very resistant to change and to anything not considered the Normal. That is why the variomatic wasn't taken seriously the first time round it was too unusual had it been tamed down a bit and made more "normal" it may have been more succesfull. The public resistance too change strangals many engineering breakthrough and is the bane of the engineers life, pity then that it is the general public that buy the product so we must sell them what they want.

Lecture Over
(sorry about that I tend to get quite emotional about such contensious issues and really must contain myself and stop lecturing too people who probably know more about it than me and who agree with the general idea of what im saying anyway)

Paul

[spunkymonkey]

With no reflection at all on Richard, I've always felt that if the engineers come up with something that's really revolutionary (as the Variomatic was at the time) then the advertising types simply aren't doing their jobs right if they can't sell it to the public.

They managed to sell us the horseless carriage in the first place, after all - and then sell us (well, some of them) "Global Warming" as a result. Get the same team working on the CVT and it'll be socially unacceptable not to have one in 5 years ;D

[Richard DAF Webmeister]

Yes, that's basically correct, although the irony is is that DAF/the "marketeers" - hate that expression! - actually did a good job of selling the idea of Variomatic from the very beginning - i.e. the very enthusiastic reception at launch.

But anyway, it's not just the CVT that is being blighted/improved with manual ratios. Most modern automatics are now sold as "switchable" to manual. The flappy paddle/boy racer types.

As others have said, if you buy an automatic, the chances are is that it's because you want an automatic! But ho hum. Customer choice and all that!

[spunkymonkey]

Our Colt is guilty of the switchable auto bit. It's a 6 speed AMT which was chosen because Sian needed auto but I wanted manual. 32000 miles later, I don't think I've used the manual mode for about the last 30000 miles. I still like manuals (hence Sheila) but the whole swichable auto thing sucks big-time on it.

For a start, it lets you handle the up-changes however you like but, as you slow down, if it doesn't think you've changed down soon enough it does it for you. Usually just as you make the change yourself, so it goes down two gears and throws you through the windscreen, followed by telling you (with its dashboard display) that you should change up a gear! You also can't miss gears which is a pain in the neck for someone who will quite often jump unwanted gears - say, 1st to 3rd to 5th when accelerating gently - or 5th straight to 3rd when overtaking aggressively.

[dafdaffer]

Genral ignorance is main problem with something new, only the other day i got a rubberband comment, Volvo decided not to hype the variomatic and call it CVT, thousand of people who brought these cars plus the mechanics who did general servicing never even knew these were belt driven. genral bodgers that had no clue used to cause more damage by tightening belts without undoing any bolts or were to scared to touch them. hence most of them getting scraped.

when you go to a classic car event its quite funny to listen to people talk about DAFs and there explanation on how it works like, "these have rubber bands that comes from the engine to the back wheels" and " these cars have a rubber belt that gets wound up then propels the car along" lol

[pauldaf44]

I may be guilty of the missing gears mine tends to be 4th to 2nd when coming up to roundabouts and junctions and 3rd to 5th in my freinds old Land Rover because the syncro has gone on 4th.

I also had a few of the funny explanations at the show I went to. One person looked under the bonnet and asked why I had fitted an engine and removed the original rubber band drive. A quick flick through a DAF mag untill I found an exploded diagram solved this one.
When I took her into the ring the comentator commented that I must be very brave driving a DAF because they had a habbit of flinging rubber bands through the bonnet and you could never tell whether you going to set off in forward or reverse.