New 33 owner with some questions

[ericthered]

Hi all,

Firstly forgive my ignorance of Daf matters as I have never had one before (just got a 33), I have a few things I would like to know so here goes…..

1, if a belt snaps can you still limp home with the other or does the diff not allow it?

2, there never seems to be much parts on ebay etc, is there a UK specialist for parts?

3, when I join the club does it give me access to a spares supply? (I will be joining when my wallet recovers from buying the car, I only paid £188 for it but the delivery was £375!! Probably more than the cars worth! Lol. But at least it will get saved from the scrap man.

4, is the engine based on the 2CV? I seem to remember reading somewhere about it being a “Boxer” engine, if this is the case is it BMW based?

5, if I need belts which is likely as the car has been stood for 25 years how much are they and where do you get them?

I could go on but that’s a good start.

Thanks and regards,
Eric.

[howard]

Hi Eric,

I'm sure others can give you more details or even other answers, but here's my twopence-worth.

1). Yes, you can still get home if a belt snaps (unless you have a 46 which only has one to start with!)

2). If you ever need parts, go to www.dafhobby.nl and chat with Danny. Fabulous. Otherwise, ask in here as most of us to pick up spares as we go.

3). Yes indeed! Delivery was a stinger - good grief. As you say though it's been saved and I'm sure you'll get your money's worth of fun out of it.

4). No, I believe it's DAF's own design, although I am happy to be corrected about this. And it is of a "boxer" type with opposing cylinders.

5). Set of belts are €95 from Danny (about £70).

Please do go on, Eric - we are all here to help each other!

Hope this helps clear up a few things, and if anyone has anything else to add, please do!

[ericthered]

thanks Howard,

i emailed Danny the other day with a list of parts (i did not know he was a parts dealer just thought he happened to have a few), just had a look at his web site and its a good job he has pictures! .

just got a book off ebay about Dafs (DAF - OWNERS HANDBOOK FROM 1965 - BY KENNETH BALL), it seems to cover all the models that were out in 1965, might be a bit early for mine but it was cheap (£2 buy it now!!) and gives me something to read.

if the weather picks up i want to do a compression test and see if i can get a spark (guy i got it from says it has no spark, but by the looks of the things they have been messing with i dont know how good their knowledge of engines is like!).

they also turned it over with a battery so fingers crossed they did no damage if the valves or rings were stuck! 25 years its been standing! but in the dry.

so if i can ask.........
the compression ratio?
points gap?
plug gap?

best wishes,
Eric.

[spunkymonkey]

Compression ratio is 7.5:1 for all the 2 cyl engines

Plugs gap: .032 to .035" (0.8 - 0.9mm)

Points gap: .016 to .020" (0.4 - 0.5mm)

Static timing: 4 deg BTDC (edit: but see John's comment below: depends on year / model)

And, when you get to them, valve clearances (cold):

Inlet .004"
Exhaust 0.006"



*** Edited to add: I saw the difference too, Howard, and must admit that the Daf value of 0.8 - 0.9mm seemed a little wide for a poor old 6V points system! The good old 25 thou standby works with just about anything anyway ***

[ericthered]

hi,

thanks for the tech info

now i can play (if the weather lets me!).

some new NGK plugs were in the glove box so 0.6mm it will be

best regards,
Eric.

[Richard DAF Webmeister]

And here are my comments:

If a belt goes, yes, you can continue driving. Best to remove the now dangling broken belt though - just pull it away from under the car.

Some people say that (bizarrely) the car seems more nippy on one belt! This could be because of there being less resistance. But you are advised to get the belt replaced soon. Also, it'd be a good idea to replace both belts at the same time. Although they don't noticeably "stretch", there is bound to be a difference between the old belt left on and a new one. (And it is possible that it is only a matter of time before the other old belt goes).

Spares - well, much as the various suppliers get lots of plugs on here, don't forget that this is the DAF Owners Club website, and even though we are small, we can supply many essential spares. Members of the club can join the spares scheme which offers various discounts, or just order and buy ad-hoc.

Incidentally, another benefit of joining the club is that you get a magazine (which some people seem to like!) I'm working on the next issue, even as I type, so thought I'd give it a plug. Also you get to know of events and things and get chances to meet up with other members. (You also make the club viable)

DAF 33 engine. All the DAF air-cooled engines (i.e. the Daffodil/33/44/46) are pure DAF designed and built. Although there are similarities with other air-cooled engine (Ian from Classic Car Weekly was delighted to hear how similar my 33 sounded to his beloved 2CV the other day!) the DAF engine is DAF. As you know, the water-cooled engines from the 55/66 are Renault units, slightly DAFified. Hey - just made that new word up!

Hope this helps - keep up the good work all!

R

[daf44]

hi all.

spark plugs can be bought in almost any factors as they fit lots of modern cars. just ask.

these engines are absolutely bombproof.

mine sat for 20 years without running. it took me less than 30 mins to get it to fire and another 2-3 hours to get it running well enough to drive round the yard it was in. after that, the more you run them the better they get.

good luck and keep us informed.

paul44

[daf44]

ps

i didnt even realise daf made cars before i saw mine and bought it on the spot but i find it great fun and quite easy to work on.
most things on it are simple enough to work out if you look at them and think it through for a bit.
things can look frightening at first (eg. variomatic system) but are actually quite simple when you think about them.

dont let yourself get frightened by it, and ask if you are not sure.

paul44

[spunkymonkey]

Thanks for that, John - my Autobooks manual has got it listed as 4 deg for all the 33's and 6 for some 44's & 46's. When I get to it I'll be setting it by vacuum gauge anyway, but always good to have an accurate figure to compare to

[spunkymonkey]

Does the factory book happen to give dwell angle for the 33's as well? Not listed in mine but I'd rather set the points by angle than gap if a figure's available.

[howard]

Funny to read the old "I didn't know DAF made cars" routine! When a 33 of mine sheared it's prop I called the RAC out to tow me home, and they sent this ENORMOUS truck!!!!! When I pointed out the size of my little car - "Oh.....I'll go and get a smaller one!".

So, you're not the only ones!

[ericthered]

hi all,

thanks for further info

i was going to have a play with it today but the 3 inches of snow is a bit off putting

i am going to set the points by the book just to get it running, i hope mine is "bullet proof" like yours Paul

i dont really go by the book when it comes to timing, the book settings were good when we had 4 star (or was 2 star recommended for the Daf??) but tuning by ear seems to get better results with that c**p they call unleaded .

if the car has no diff does it just go through a twin output right angle gear?

Howard, your story about the AA is great! ;D
and reminds me....... there is a Daf 66 GL breaking for spares on ebay, it is listed as "Leyland Daf" item no is 350039203278.
it seems to be a scrap yard.
car is at Tamworth but they will remove and send out parts.
hope this might help someone.

regards,
Eric.

[ericthered]

hi John,

i thought they had alloy heads? if so surely they will have inserts and be ok on unleaded, or is it the valves them selves that are not up to the job?

[dafdaffer]

hi eric,

I used to run my 44 on unleaded and it never seemed to mind the stuff, i did used to put additve in but not always.

i used to find on my cars that the best way to set the static timing was to set it by ear until the engine revs pick up then knock it back a bit, then take it up the biggest hill that you can find and adjust it untill it stops pinking,

i set my coupe up like this as well as i used to find the proper setting made the car slow and awkward to change up, we must remember that simple things like chain wear vacuum leaks and even the type of fuel or aditive can affect the running as well, im sure that most people who have either owned my DAF's after me or been behind them that they run very well ;D

when you do get her running and mot time comes around dont forget that it must NOT go onto the brake tester rollers

and always start in gear if you intend to move off. neutral for servicing or warm up if needed

always change the belts in new pairs, one stretched or worn belt against another can make the pulleys try to run at diferent ratio's wearing the new belt quicker and putting unessasary wear on the variomatic. if they are to be removed mark them with chalk in rotation and by side. i would change them before you even bother any distance as they will fail, the little 33 and 44 feel horible to drive on one belt they become very twitchy!

you will probably find once you get it running that the clutch may fail, sorry to sound grim! the lining of the shoes generaly fall off when they have been stood for a while, engine out job but its not too bad!

try and source another prop if you can as they also become frail with age and they also do not like standing, it aint much fun when one goes, you also need the engine out or variomatic out, i personally would take the engine out!
if you are inspecting the prop watch out for the spring at the rear of the prop as it drops out unknowingly, its worse when you drive away and go back into the garage to clean up and there is a spring lying there!!!! (engine out again!)

dont leave the low ratio hold on after 30 mph as this will damage the diagphrams also dont brake and accelerate at the same time over 30 (why would you do that?) if you are trying to bed the brakes or have been through alot of water ;D

when changing the engine oil also clean the strainer at the bottom of the engine, there is no oil filter although motor factors have listings for them??? the one they sell you is for a 55 66 v66 etc they mostly all have listings for 4 spark plugs as well!! 2 for the glove box?

i also have a few manuals including the glove box manual which you can have for the price of postage.

any questions please ask,

Paul

[ericthered]

hi Paul,

thanks for the detailed advice, it does sound grim though!

what you say all makes sense, but the prop going frail sounds odd is it made of alloy or something?

sounds like i need to check everything over really well before attempting a drive about

what is low ratio hold?

yes please to the books!! :)the only info i have has come from this forum, everyone is a great help but theres nothing like a book to help find your way around.
how much would you like and how do i pay?

i wanted to do a bit on the car today but its outside and i have wimped out with the weather being cold

i would like to be on the road for 6-8 weeks but it all depends on how busy i am with the circuses.

i intend to use it as a runabout for a while to town and back (10 mile round trip) this will hopefully iron out a few potential faults.

sounds like a belt change should be done whether they look ok or not will stockings work ;D lol.

let me know about the books please

regards,
Eric.

[Richard DAF Webmeister]

The EXCELLENT reply from Paul DAF Daffer says it all really (and shows why we need him as a DAF owner!)

One observation/comment from me re unleaded petrol. MAC P is right when he says that ideally, have the head done. But, many of us haven't/can't for whatever reason. Therefore, I use one of the lead replacement fuel additives (Castrol in my case). You just pop a few drops into the tank when you buy petrol.

It is very important that once you start using such an additive, you always continue to use the same one/same chemical make-up. I won't bore you with an explanation, but it's complicated and to do with chemical reactions.

Low ratio hold - you see that little green knob on the dash board that looks like it's a hazard warning light switch? Well, it's not a hazard switch. It's your low ratio hold button. This basically holds the car in low gear.

You will never need to use it, unless you plan to drive up/down seriously steep mountain passes. But whatever, as Paul says, never switch it on or use it at any speed above 30mph. That is the equivalent of changing down from top gear to first gear in a manual car whilst doing a considerable speed. You can imagine the chaos and damage that would cause!

(I mention it looking like a hazard light switch. This is because I have had MoT testers say to me "your hazards don't work - the switch lights up but the indicators don't"!! Honestly.)

I think it's because the little mountain symbol looks a bit like a warning triangle. Doh!

[ericthered]

oh dear i thought it was hazard warning lights too

is it on when in or popped out?

[veeruk]

Mine lights up green when it is popped out so that would be in the "on" position then. You will also hear the revs go up a little bit. Well, mine does anyway. It used to be on a very awkward place on my dad's Volvo 343 and it was accidental switched on without him knowing it. He complained about the car revving high and not wanting to go faster than usual. He spotted what was wrong on the motorway. I was only little but realise now that a lot of damage could have been done.

[dafdaffer]

Hi Eric,

the prop is alloy with a set of rubber joints with steel inners, the rubber gets old and rots then they break away and you loose drive, i had this happen on my 44 just after coming down a hill, i went to accelerate and the engine revs shot up and i came to a stop.

i will post you the books and then give you the postage cost if that is ok.

Paul

[ericthered]

hi Paul,

yes thats great!

you will need my address etc, i can send it via the forum or if you email me at [e-mail] it will open another line of communication.

i think i will have a good check of the rubbers on the prop

must remember not to press that green button on the dash when speeding along (can you speed along in a Daf? lol.

thanks again and best wishes,
Eric.

[daf44]

hi all.

dont forget that timing figures are for old 98ron 4star petrol.

if you run on super unleaded then you are ok but if you run on standard unleaded you may mave to have it firing 2-3 degrees earlier again.

i tend to mage sure that plug gap and points gap are spot on and then turn the distributor until the car runs smoothly. this can take a bit of practice until you get your ear in but i find this far more effective on old cars than following 40 year old figures.

if you are using timing gear anyway, try this first. you have nothing to lose apart from 1/2 hour or so but it could make a big difference to the car.

happy motoring.

paul44

[Richard DAF Webmeister]

veeruk said:

Mine lights up green when it is popped out so that would be in the "on" position then. You will also hear the revs go up a little bit. Well, mine does anyway. quote]

Yes, it's switched on when popped out, and of course, it lights up green - well, it should do!

And yes, if the revs rise when you switch it on (at tickover) this is a good sign. It means that your timing/tuning is well set up.

Likewise, when on tickover, press the brake pedal, (not with the low ratio switch on) and your revs will (should) increase slightly. This is also a good timing/tuning sign.

Crumbs, Mr B making technical comments. Steady now!

(Sorry, although I set this forum thing up, I can't fathom the "quote" controls!)

[Bob Scrivens]

Hi Eric
Steady folks, I have got input overload!!!
Take it one step at a time Eric, get the engine running Ok, best to block off the pipe coming off the back of the inlet manifold and get the engine running as sweet as a clock with the ignition and carb,
Then make sure the brakes all work, you need them with an auto.
After that give us all another call.
Happy tinkering.

Regards Bob.

[spunkymonkey]

daf44 said:

i tend to mage sure that plug gap and points gap are spot on and then turn the distributor until the car runs smoothly. this can take a bit of practice until you get your ear in but i find this far more effective on old cars than following 40 year old figures.

paul44

Agreed, Paul - only I prefer to use a vacuum gauge rather than my out-of-practice ears (not had a car with settable timing for almost 10 years). At least on these there are plenty of places to connect a gauge to, and from the look of it a lot more potential uses for one checking the transmission setup too

Either way (ear or gauge) will help correct for any signs of aging - an engine at max revs / max vacuum for a given throttle is giving its best by definition.

That said, with a car that's been standing and doesn't start, the book figure is a guaranteed safe starting point until you get it fired up!

[daf44]

hi there.

i have never been shown how to use a vacuum gauge for timing. i have not even heard about it.
i have a vacuum gauge but i have always used it for balancing carbs and checking vacuum lines.
how do you use it for timing???

paul44

[spunkymonkey]

Much the same as you use your ear, Paul. Connect it up (the gauge, not your ear ) then adjust the timing to get the highest vacuum reading you can at idle. The theory is that, for a given engine speed, the less air / fuel it's eating the more efficient it's running. Similarly for a given throttle opening, the more it's trying to suck in (which is what the gauge measures), the better. As with timing by ear, once you have the maximium it's safest to retard very slightly to prevent pinking on the road.

You can use the same method for setting the idle mixture - in this case adjust for maximum vacuum (most efficient)and then enrich very slightly for maximum power. Or leave at max vacuum if you're feeling green

In both cases, if the engine speed increases significantly as you make the adjustments, slow it down again on the throttle stop and repeat until you get the specified idle speed and maximum vacuum with the throttle as near to closed as possible. As always, set up the timing first and then the mixture - a small change in timing can have a large effect on carburation. If either are a LONG way out then check both twice (timing - mixture - timing - mixture) as a sort of course then fine adjustment.

You can do the same with a tacho (or ear), but vacuum tends to be more sensitive.

[daf44]

thanks for that.

you learn something new every day.

i will try this sometime.

paul44