|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 5, 2018 14:56:21 GMT
Help please any ideas. Went in the 44 to the Winter Lunch ran perfectly all day, about 80 miles. When got home switched of to open garage, would not restart. It turned over slowly then stopped seamed to free and turn over slowly again this kept happening, had to push into garage. Had battery on charge all day yesterday, put back on same result tried bolster pack, same result. Taken starter off working fine. Am starting to think partially seized. Any suggestions
|
|
andrew
Likes DAFs
Posts: 1,104
|
Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2018 16:19:55 GMT
This could be a number of things, but as the starter motor works OK out of the car the problem lies in the wiring somewhere. I'd suggest tightening up all the connections from the battery to the starter motor, including the solenoid. Next, check the earth strap from the car body to the engine. On 33s it's a small braided strap from the suspension bolt and the exhaust cradle. If this strap has come undone or loose then the starter motor will have to earth through the choke and accelerator cables, which might allow the slow-running valve to work but not the starter, which draws about 500 amps!
Good luck! It'll be something simple, I'm sure!
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 5, 2018 16:31:13 GMT
Thanks Andrew checked all the leads before checking the starter. Starter has it's own earth lead back to battery.
|
|
andrew
Likes DAFs
Posts: 1,104
|
Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2018 16:39:39 GMT
Believe it or not I once had a car that had significant resistance in the terminals of the battery & the clamps, so it might be worth measuring the resistance between the battery terminals and the the wiring clamps on the battery. 6 volt electrics are fine but they do need a bit more fettling than 12 volt systems.
|
|
|
Post by starider on Feb 5, 2018 19:54:51 GMT
Hi, Just another check,with the bonnet up[and ignition off or battery disconnected],try turning the engine by hand,you can either turn the dynamo nut[clockwise]and see if the clutch drum turns as well,or try turning the drum itself.There is a slight possibility a segment/s of clutch lining may have come off it's shoe and jammed. This will put an added loading on the starter as it will mean the starter is trying to turn the primary unit as well. I would also agree with Andrew, you really must get underneath and check the engine to chassis earth strap.One of the DAF 33 service sheets sent to dealers highlighted the necessity for this to be checked during servicing..................starider
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 6, 2018 17:46:28 GMT
Thanks Starider checked clutch with transmission selector in neutral clutch drum spins OK, so clutch not jammed. All leads checked and all secure, still no joy.
|
|
|
Post by Richard DAF Webmeister on Feb 6, 2018 19:37:28 GMT
I'm reading this with interest.
My (6 volt) 44 is a very reluctant starter, especially with the little use it gets.
The strange thing is that when trying to start with the choke fully out, the starter can hardly turn the engine, but when you push the choke in, it seems to "loosen" up a bit, and you get the sense that at least fuel is being pumped into the carb.
It tries to fire but then the battery gives up.
I realise that it doesn't help that it doesn't get used much - spends its time tucked up in the garage We've checked the timing, put new plugs in, a new condenser.
It also has the flat spot even when it is going - pulling away from junctions is rather scary, and its taken to stalling - unless I pull the choke out a little. So this might be related.
Oh well, the joys!
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 6, 2018 23:22:37 GMT
Know what you mean Richard my 44 is reluctant to start when has been stood for a while, but what I can't understand is that it had just done 30+ miles back from Bakewell and run perfectly and only been switched of for 2 minutes before the problem started. One other point is my 44 has been converted to 12-volt.
|
|
|
Post by starider on Feb 7, 2018 11:00:45 GMT
Hi, you say you have charged the battery,have you actually checked the battery itself? a weak cell[or two] will give the symtoms you describe.We always found that unless a 6volt battery was as near 100% fully chargeable as possible it would give problems.Worth a check.....starider
|
|
dillyman
Likes DAFs
Becky beautiful
Posts: 283
|
Post by dillyman on Feb 7, 2018 11:30:41 GMT
Just a thought. Did you disconnect battery from car before charging overnight? If not discharge fault might equal charger rate - result battery still not charged!
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 7, 2018 12:52:30 GMT
Hi guys battery removed to charge even had my fully charged jump start pack connected and still the same.
|
|
andrew
Likes DAFs
Posts: 1,104
|
Post by andrew on Feb 7, 2018 13:58:57 GMT
This calls for serious investigation....... Where are you? I'm thinking a capacitance test, together with a check over of the car's wiring. How was it converted to 12 volts and have there been any indications of other problems?
|
|
derek
Likes DAFs
MOT passed first attempt!
Posts: 32
|
Post by derek on Feb 7, 2018 15:27:16 GMT
Just another thought have you checked that you have compression?
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 7, 2018 18:39:39 GMT
Sorry no compression tester, will have to take the plugs out see if that makes any difference. Converted before I got the car,but every thing seams to have been done correctly, and no problems before this happened. I am in Rotherham South Yorkshire.
|
|
andrew
Likes DAFs
Posts: 1,104
|
Post by andrew on Feb 7, 2018 19:59:34 GMT
Rotherham's a little too far from north London to "pop over!" A thought I haven't seen mentioned so far is a defective solenoid; you said earlier that the starter works properly when fed DIRECTLY from the battery. When this test was done I take it the live feed went to the starter live, not via the solenoid. If this is the case, the solenoid may have failed.
JUST HAD ANOTHER IDEA! Look at the starter motor-is it REALLY a 12 volt one or was the 6 volt one left in place? A 12 volt one operates at about 9.5 volts and can still start the car. A 6 volt one will similarly operate at 4.5 volts and if it's wired to a 12 volt battery it'll run quickly and will give good service if energised for SHORT periods. A longer starting cycle will burn out the wiring. Again, just a thought!
|
|
|
Post by mtjm on Feb 7, 2018 20:01:46 GMT
Sorry no compression tester, will have to take the plugs out see if that makes any difference. Converted before I got the car,but every thing seams to have been done correctly, and no problems before this happened. I am in Rotherham South Yorkshire. I've got a compression tester you're welcome to borrow if you like. I'm in Sheffield, so not far away.
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 7, 2018 20:24:06 GMT
Thanks for the input guys it is a 12volt starter, I have also tried a spare starter I know to be good, with the same result. Thanks for the offer of the compression tester, I am busy from now until Tuesday with family matters and hospital visits, will get in touch next week if this is OK.
|
|
|
Post by mtjm on Feb 8, 2018 19:21:00 GMT
Fine with me. Always happy to help out a Daf owner.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Feb 8, 2018 19:46:50 GMT
Fine with me. Always happy to help out a Daf owner. Mark And that is what classic car ownership should be about! It definitely is what I think this forum and our club are about, warms the cockles of my heart to see a post like this.
|
|
|
Post by starider on Feb 11, 2018 17:48:24 GMT
Hi,I think a lot of us initially thought your 44 was on 6volt. You haven't said whether you had been underneath to check the braided earth cable.It cannot be stressed enough that it is in good condition.The Moggie Minors have a similar earth cable underneath between the gear box and chassis.If they fail the starter can earth via the choke cable!!.Try a jump lead between the earth terminal on the battery and a good metal part of the engine,if it is no better it will confirm that there are good earth connections on the car........starider
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 12, 2018 22:14:27 GMT
Thanks Starider earthing is not the problem as there is an extra earth from one of the starter mounting bolt to bolt on the body and from that bolt to the battery. Thanks for every ones help the job is now on hold as I go into hospital tomorrow for my operation, so will not be able to work on the car for a couple of month. Thanks again. Mick
|
|
|
Post by starider on Feb 13, 2018 11:19:28 GMT
Hi, best wishes for the operation,hope all goes well..................starider
|
|
|
Post by Richard DAF Webmeister on Feb 13, 2018 21:54:09 GMT
Thanks Starider earthing is not the problem as there is an extra earth from one of the starter mounting bolt to bolt on the body and from that bolt to the battery. Thanks for every ones help the job is now on hold as I go into hospital tomorrow for my operation, so will not be able to work on the car for a couple of month. Thanks again. Mick If you are still struggling with the car when you are back again, try Steve - he'll sort it for/with you - and of course is not that far away... Good luck with the whatever.
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 13, 2018 22:35:46 GMT
Thanks Richard already got Steve on the case.
|
|
|
Post by spidersmart on Feb 21, 2018 21:10:07 GMT
With the help of my young assistant Gareth, him doing the work and me supervising, we managed to get the 44 started again. After warming her up we turned her of, and again was very difficult to restart, although the battery showing fully charged was actually nearly flat, so new battery should solve the problem.
|
|
|
Post by themfriendsinretford on Feb 21, 2018 22:07:06 GMT
And, if you're wondering who that Gareth is, it's me. Hello! Glad to be a member of this forum. Really warms my heart.
|
|
|
Post by Richard DAF Webmeister on Feb 21, 2018 22:18:50 GMT
Phew!
I managed to get my 44 out last weekend and guess what? It followed a few days charging of the battery! Made a significant difference.
I suppose it's obvious, certainly in my case, because the car sits in a cold garage and had not been used for a while, so battery sits getting cold too. Especially noticeable on my 6 volt system.
Onwards!
|
|
|
Post by andrejuan on Feb 22, 2018 16:51:19 GMT
All this talk of 44s is making me want to get mine out and MOT'd. I'll have to move the 66 and load of junk to get to it but, well worth an attempt. look out Yorkshire here she comes :-)
|
|