Rear brake drum hub nuts

[stret]

Hi Everyone

I`m a new member who has recently bought a 1973 DAF 44 in need of restoration as I was after something different to work on. I`m currently in the process of going over the mechanicals to see how everything works and what is going to be required to get it back on the road.

I am wanting to take off the rear brake drums to access the inside but have come across a problem. The castle nuts holding the drum and bearings are seized solid. I have tried everything to shift them, heat , penetrating oil , leverage, impact wrench but nothing`s making them budge. I am now down to `Plan B` which is to grind them off, but before I do I thought I`d better ask a couple of questions.

1. Am I missing something obvious in trying to remove them. Is there some clever DAF retaining fixing which I haven`t thought of ? I can`t think that there is, and my manual doesn`t make any reference to anything other than just removing them with a spanner. The split pins are obviously out and I`m undoing anti-clock.
2. I have found M18 castle nuts on the internet which look a direct replacement but are the DAF ones on the car special in any way ? Are nuts available through the club or recommended stockists ? 

From what I can make out the car has been stood for at least the last 13 years and it`s probably longer since the nuts were last off so I guess they have just seized through time. The good news is the front ones came off okay !!

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

[andrew]

I would be reluctant to grind them off as the castellated nuts are attached to the driveshafts, and your actions would require new driveshafts in addition to anything else. These driveshafts are not the easiest thing to source in the world of Dafs, and aren't easy to fit, either!

It sounds like you've done all the obvious methods to shift them, so maybe it's time to think "outside the box".

1/ Are ALL the bits of the split pins removed? I expect they are, but it doesn't hurt to ask!

2/ Breaker bar and a piece of scaffolding pole? On a Daf 33 I used to have to lock two of the three wheel studs when undoing the nut, and I suspect yours have been done up even tighter.

3/ There should be a washer between the nut and the brake hub and I suspect this was omitted when last the hub was removed. Consequently the nut may have been over-tightened in order to take up the slack on the outside of the hub.

4/ Plusgas?

5/ I suppose the ultimate answer is the removal of the entire secondary unit and subsequent delivery to a specialised engineering company!

If you're in the north London area I'd be happy to take a look!

[starider]

These drums are a pain to remove especially if they've been removed and refitted with Loctite.The method we used in the "trade" was to stand the car on the ground with the hand brake firmly on[even someone sitting in the car with the footbrake on, then as Andrew says with a breaker bar and a length of heavy tube[make sure the socket is the impact wrench sort with hexagonal inner],a good wire brushing and a douse of WD40 and making sure all the split pin is removed, put increasing downwards[anti clock] pressure on the bar. I would be very surprised if it doesn't release.Please don't attack it with a disc cutter!!

Taking the unit off makes it more difficult to hold the unit to apply pressure.

[bobdisk]

Just a thought, is it anti-clockwise to remove for both sides? I know of some where it is anti-clockwise for left and clockwise to remove for right side. (I think)

[stret]

Thanks for your comments all
 
Just to give you an idea of how tight the buggers are I spent a week heating and applying penetrating oil and then put my socket bar with a 6 foot length of scaffolding pole over it and gradually applied pressure . There was a give and I thought great its moved but all that had happened was the half inch drive section of my socket bar had sheared !!

I`ve removed many hub nuts but never come across ones as bad as these. The split pins are all out and the one I have been majoring on is anti-clock release. Thanks for the offer of a look andrew but unfortunately I live at the other end of the country in the north east. I can`t see any sign of the washer you mentioned so over enthusiastic tightening looks a possibility.

I think if I can use my mini-grinder to thin out one small section of the the flange at the base of the castle nut, which is where I believe it is seized, I can get a punch in and `shock` it free.

I`m loathe to take the whole of the half axle off as there are many rusted nuts to release and my access is limited. I`m also not sure what effective grip you could gain to prevent half shaft / casing movement while trying to remove the nut.

I`m back pondering but still thinking a slow and steady grind is the answer.

Cheers again, I`ll let you know how it goes.

[andrew]

Jun 22, 2022 20:56:36 GMT stret said:

Thanks for your comments all
 
Just to give you an idea of how tight the buggers are I spent a week heating and applying penetrating oil and then put my socket bar with a 6 foot length of scaffolding pole over it and gradually applied pressure . There was a give and I thought great its moved but all that had happened was the half inch drive section of my socket bar had sheared !!

Bloomin' hell, that IS tight!!

[bobdisk]

Jun 21, 2022 17:59:24 GMT starider said:

These drums are a pain to remove especially if they've been removed and refitted with Loctite.The method we used in the "trade" was to stand the car on the ground with the hand brake firmly on[even someone sitting in the car with the footbrake on, then as Andrew says with a breaker bar and a length of heavy tube[make sure the socket is the impact wrench sort with hexagonal inner],a good wire brushing and a douse of WD40 and making sure all the split pin is removed, put increasing downwards[anti clock] pressure on the bar. I would be very surprised if it doesn't release.Please don't attack it with a disc cutter!!

Taking the unit off makes it more difficult to hold the unit to apply pressure.

Trouble is with the 33 the wheel must come off as there is no hole in the centre of the wheel to work on the nut. Dont know about the 44 wheels though.

[starider]

Good luck,but I would still advise against the grinding idea.In all the many years of working on DAF rear brakes I have never known one that wouldn't release eventually.If you have a really good socket and bar a good belt or two with a heavy hammer often does the trick.

[dafman50]

Leave wheel on car choke it in place with handbrake on use lots plus gas and then warm with blow torch good socket and length of tube. I do this all time to get them off in workshop.

[andrejuan]

When I did this, I have to say they were the tightest nuts I had ever removed. It felt like I was going to break something, but they gave in the end. To give me more confidence to increase pressure I supported the hub and swing arm very solidly.

[starider]

Hi again, both dafman50 and myself suggested the same method,but I would add one word of caution, only warming the nut is prefered. Too much heat will anneal[soften] the metal and reduce it's high tensile structure[we learnt all this when apprentice engineers].

[stret]

Well here`s the promised update, but firstly I`d once again like to thank you all for your comments. These nuts have been a right pain and it became personal.....they weren`t going to beat me !!

I decided to go with the only option left to me which was to grind them off. So I used my mini angle grinder which was nice and light, manoeuvrable and with a thin blade. I had hoped that grinding off one small section would allow me to get a punch into the gap and giving it a welly with a hammer shock the nuts free. This didn`t work so with a steady hand and going slowly I ground off most of the thickness of the flange section all the way around. On the remaining thin section of metal at the base of the castellated nut I used a cold chisel to break this join between nut and drum thereby isolating the nut. It appears almost as if at sometime in the past the flange and drum have basically "fused /rusted" themselves together and this was what was preventing the nut from moving. Once the nut was isolated it came off easy and the drum also slid easily off its splines. So success.. I wasn`t beaten !!

I have a few minor grind marks on the face of the drum but nothing that scraps it. The nuts are obviously unusable but I can get some replacements off the internet.

So job done. Happy and relieved they are off. Cheers

[rhysnolan]

Well done, where there's a wheel there's a way!