Annoying rattle on DAF 55

[fordgpw]

Hi, this is my first post here, I'm not a DAF man as such, recommissioning one for someone, 1968 DAF 55, it has 12,000 miles from new, so the list is not a long one, in fact it's roadworthy now (having changed the belts oils, brakes and tinkered with the engine). But it has a horrid rattle whenever the prop is turning, which I have located to where the prop enters the forward/reverse box at the rear, there is a spring pushing on a large washer (dust cover at a guess for the seal behind), the problem is the washer is free to turn and worked its way over the spring, so it sort of runs up the spring Archemedes screw style, making a noise as it goes. I have a manual but it's not very descriptive, it shows the washer/cover as a separate part, but doesn't show whether it's pressed into the pinion housing or whether it should be free to turn. I managed to fish out a small collar of metal that was around the prop shaft splines at the rear, hidden behind the spring, at a guess this is something to do with either keeping the washer behind the spring or keeping the washer on the pinion shaft.

So I have two questions really if I can ask the DAF minds, how is this washer supposed to work (is it free to turn and needs replacing or somehow secured to the housing), and is the prop shaft removable without touching the engine or transmission? I can get the prop to move backwards but not enough to clear the splines at the front, if the engine has to come out then it's not the end of the world, it just means more work taking the bonnet off, etc, if I'm missing a simpler way of getting the prop out then I would rather take the simpler route!

TIA.

[andrew]

You already appear to have isolated the source of the rattle and perhaps it'd help to explain what those parts are supposed to do and why. Unlike almost every other vehicle. the Daf propshaft rotates at engine (as opposed to road) speed and so therefore needs to be carefully and dynamically balanced. This is done when the car's built and, unless it is damaged, there's no need worry about it. Both ends of the prop shaft are fitted with a rubber coupling, which allows the drive to be taken up more smoothly than it would otherwise. In addition to this, there's a spring (quite a strong one) fitted between the primary unit and the rear of the prop shaft, which keeps the shaft tight up against the clutch bearing. This is necessary because the engine moves slightly when the car accelerates and decelerates; were the spring not there the prop shaft would slide slightly along the splines at either the clutch or the primary unit, causing vibrations.

On Daf 33 and 44 cars (I can't confirm this to be the case on Daf 55 cars, but I suspect it's the same) there's a small panel just in front of the primary unit, giving access to the rear end of the prop shaft and the spline on the front of the primary transmission unit. On the 33 cars the spring you mentioned can only be fitted by firstly removing the primary unit and sliding it over the spline before then slotting the unit back in place. The spring rests on the rear of the prop shaft and on a plate on the the front of the primary unit, which rotates with the shaft, so the prop shaft, spring and primary spline are all rotating together. The piece of metal you removed might be the plate on which the spring rests that may have become somehow detached. Access to this area us from under the car, with the rear end up on ramps, and the primary unit removed.

An alternative source of the rattle might be the gear selector bar catching on the prop shaft. This bar runs from the gear selector between the front seats to the primary unit and the fit is quite snug in the transmission tunnel. The clips holding it in place do wear and changing them's quite fiddley (I know, I've done it on my own 33!)

All the above remarks are made from the perspective of a 33 owner, and I can't guarantee that the 55 is built in precisely the same way, but the basic principles should be the same. Much more help on offer if you need it (mince pies and mulled wine not withstanding!)

[fordgpw]

Hi, thanks for your reply.

The DAF has been on a 4 poster ramp, and the rattle is definitely coming from the rear of the prop shaft, it sounds more like a collapsed/dry bearing rattle than a vibrating metal-on-metal rattle. You can actually manipulate the washer by hand and recreate the conditions, and , with someone in the cab blipping the throttle, it is very obvious from underneath, you can see it happening.

The piece I pulled out was around the rear spline of the prop shaft, maybe half a mm in thickness (I pulled it out with fine nose pliers through the spring, easily malleable) and a width of maybe 4mm, looks to have sheared, at a guess this is/was the locator for the spring as you describe. I just wondered if I'm the first to have this issue, maybe so! If the plate is to turn with the shaft and spline then I might get away with adding a washer to act as a thrust washer between the plate and spring, my doubt was in the fragments I found, I couldn't be sure if they were perhaps from a bearing at some stage in the back of the prop or similar.

I think next job will be to move the engine forward and see if there is enough room to slide the prop out without removing it completely (looks like there should be), then work out what is going on at the back end and then try and find or fathom a replacement. Thanks again.

[andrew]

My advice would be to remove the primary unit first and examine the shaft spline. This will also allow you to remove any detritus from the area and to shake things about a bit, to see what, if anything, rattles! Removal of the engine is much more involved and as the problem appears to be at the rear of the car. I'd start there! This would offer you the opportunity to inspect the belts, the condition of the pulleys and change the transmission fluids at the same time! These checks and changes are all well worth doing, and are easily done from under the car, particularly if you've access to a 4 post hoist.

You mentioned earlier that you're carrying out this work on behalf of the owner; is he or she a member of the DAF Owners Club? If not, I'd recommend them joining P.D.Q. (pretty damn quick!) as the Club's an invaluable source of help, parts and advice on all matters Daf.

May I ask where you (and the car) are located? Many a Daf owner has come to the aid of another at times of distress/panic/head scratching........

[fordgpw]

Hi there.

The belts have already been changed, as have the oils. I actually had to make a G clamp to spread the rear pulleys apart, if anyone wants to borrow it.

It's in northern France, sorry not sure if they are a club member but will ask the question.

Looking underneath, I need to remove the radiator anyway to refit the shroud and fill with antifreeze, the exhaust is off, I have a transmission jack, so it looks like just lifting the engine off the mounts and moving it forward ~2". I shouldn't need to touch the bonnet or do much more to gain the bit of room I need.

[andrew]

You're one step ahead of me! I think there's another member from northern France who sometimes comes on this Forum, who has a 46. My family and I are regular visitors to the Dinard area (well, we were before Covid!) and hope to travel there again soon.

Keep the Forum informed of your progress with the car!

[fordgpw]

Sure thing. It hasn't really needed all that much, it has 12,000km on it,l and has been in the same family since new. She has been sat in a garage since the mid 80's. The condition is remarkable, frankly, it's 'untouched' has the original stickers everywhere (one under the bonnet that shows the adjustment for the rear pulleys, and a fusebox diagram under the fusebox lid). It's only on its third oil change from new (according to its history, anyway). Hasn't needed much more than a very good service, new exhaust, water pump, tyres, the rear belts were changed but the old ones weren't too bad. All the brake hoses and cylinders changed, front callipers rebuilt, the rear shoes and drums are the originals as are the front disks (the disks just wanted a clean off with a soft wire wheel, possibly the front pads are original as well). Not many cars can be running around on the original 55 year old disks! The petrol tank and radiator have been refurbished as the tank was completely corroded internally and the rad leaked, carburettor overhauled, I ended up having to repair the dip beam switch as the back was loose and shorting out to earth. Oh, and the boot lid is a bit twisted as it only has a retractable boot stay on the R/H rear, which over time has strained it. I have made a bracket for a gas strut for the L/H which works well, will probably put one on the R/H too so it's equally supported. It runs, drives and stops fine, just this washer (and a bit of play in the steering) to sort and it's ready for the road again. I've worked on 'thousands' of cars from all years, but this is the first DAF I've come across, for someone not used to them, they are an unusual beast, particularly when you're behind the wheel of one!

Dinard is around two hours away, I'm not too far south of Normandy landing beach area. Small world.

[fordgpw]

Might have even worked out how to add pictures!

2022-12-31_04-23-56 by JPU121265, on Flickr

[andrew]

What you have there is a real thing of beauty! Aside from what appears to be a car body in nigh-on excellent condition for its age, you also have a Daf 55 that's rarer than normal. ALL Dafs are rare now, but this one's in the Premier League of rare ones, as it's an early 55. When Daf re-vamped their range of cars and introduced the numbering scheme, the first cars had a series of horizontal chrome strips along the front, with the car's model number embedded in the strips. This designation didn't last long and the later cars had just two chrome strips, with a plastic badge showing "DAF 55" clipped to it. Therefore your car is a rare "Mark 1" Daf 55. More pictures, please!

From what you say the car seems to have been well cared for and will soon be running again; the small things you mention (Rattle from the prop shaft not withstanding) don't sound as if they'll take too long to sort and then it will be off to a local garage for a CT test (The French M.O.T. test) DON'T let the tester use the rolling road to test the car's brakes-it will damage the transmission, probably irrepairably! The brakes MUST be tested using a Tapeley meter. This is because Dafs like yours don't have a differential as such, and rely on the difference in belt ratios when cornering to give a differential effect. This is a huge advantage in mud and snow, as each wheel remains driven, but it also means stopping ONE wheel while the OTHER is turned is disastrous for the transmission!

A classic car in France, so it qualifies for yellow (French style) headlamps-BRILLAINT-I love them!

[fordgpw]

Hi there.

Yes, it's certainly a thing of beauty, everything comes apart, nothing corroded, it's a good survivor.

The wheels have been repainted, they were a bit scabby, and a new set of age appropriate Pirelli Cinturato's fitted, I still have the factory fitted Michelin 135 tyres.2022-12-31_08-16-18 by JPU121265, on Flickr I'll ask the owner (it isn't mine, I'm merely the mechanic) if he is happy for more photos to be posted. If so I will start a new topic. Maybe, bearing in mind its originality, if any members want any specific details or pictures, I can oblige, I won't have it here for long!

I know what you mean about the 'differential effect' with the rear axle, I have a gravel courtyard outside and it skids the inside wheel when turning, I will be sure to mention it come CT time. Also, you DAF chaps will be used to it, but after many years of manual transmission, putting your foot down and getting the sensation of clutch slip is still not habitual!

[dafman50]

A very beautiful early 55 .very desirable.