using clutch shoes twice!

[ericthered]

hi all,

i took the engine out of the 33 the check the shoes and they are worn so need to get a new set really, BUT, i have an idea that i want to run past as many as possible to see if there is any reason it might not work, so here goes....

i have wear to all shoes but only 4 are right down (about 2mm on one edge), the other 4 are very good.

now according to the book i have the first 4 shoes engage at about 800 -1000 RPM, these will be the very worn ones as they will be the ones that do most "slipping".

the other secondary 4 shoes engage at about 1900 to 2200 RPM, at this point the first 4 shoes are already holding the drum, so the second 4 just have to swing out and provide some extra grip, they will do very little "slipping", in fact probably none!

so, i take the shoes out and turn them all round, the unworn secondaries become the first set to engage and do all the "slipping", the original first set will become the secondary and they hardly wear at all so the fact they have lots of wear does not really matter, all they have to do is "grip" and not "slip".

the wear pattern is on the shoes will still be in the right place, so they can be turned round no problem, its just that once turned the unworn ones will swing out first due to the centrifugal force.

so you can see i will get loads more life and use out of them!

the only possible problem i can see is that by turning them round they will be under an opposite force to what they were originally, this in theory could pull the linings off.
but they are bonded in the same way as brake shoes and they get forced in opposite directions a fair bit and do ok (ie, driving forward and braking and reversing and braking), so i am happy to give it a go.

perhaps someone on the forum has tried it and can say if it works ok or not?

if anyone can think of any reasons not to do it please let me know, other wise i will let you all know how it goes.

Best wishes,
Eric.

[howard]

Hi Eric,

I know what you're saying, but my own feelings are "how much do you enjoy taking your engine out?". From what I have seen of clutch shoes that have been in a car for 30-years plus it is worth replacing them with new whilst you have a decent chance to do so. How can you tell, under the heat and friction of everyday use, that one will not become unstuck and jam the clutch on (as happened to my dad's 33). I'm all for saving the pennies, but the last clutch I did (which worked alright yet NONE of the shoes had any linings left!) tell me that a few quid spent now will save a lot of trouble in the future. Danny from DAFHobby supplied me with a few sets and I'm confident that they'll serve me well. The decision is up to you of course!

[daf44]

hi there.

i cannot think of a reason not to do this.
providing they fit properly, i would be tempted to do this while the engine is out in the same way that you rotate tyres on the car so they wear evenly.

that said, you do still have the issue of 30+ year old clutch shoes.
if they all appear okay then i would be tempted to take a chance.
Mind you, i drive a toyota daily and the DAF for fun.i do not RELY on the daf.

sounds ok to me though.

let us know if it works.

paul44

[spunkymonkey]

Sounds like a possible plan to me, Eric.

The bonding issue is the only concern I can see - as John has said, if one breaks free in use it could be a bit of a pain. If it does happen it won't be "at speed" but as you're sitting at idle or, more likely, just pulling away. So more likely to cause a nasty stall (and maybe upset your propshaft) than anything really bad.

Having said that, you should be able to rivet each shoe on it's leading edge (soft copper and make sure it's well recessed!) to protect against this. As long as you're careful with positioning them the same on each shoe they shouldn't cause a balance problem. Many, many, years ago suitable rivets were available as stock for relining brake shoes but I have no idea if you can still get them???

Joe

[ericthered]

hi all,

thanks for all your input on this, i understand your concerns about the idea and i have them too, its just that me being a Scotsman and brought up in Yorkshire i am a bit tight when it comes to cash! LOL (plus i dont have much).

i was hopeing that a few would just say "oh yeah thats no problem we do it all the time and it works great!"
and i would feel happy about doing it.

but i think after reading your comments and seeing as i want to use it as my only car i had better just get new ones

its still something to consider for cars that dont get used much.

anyway, i emailed Danny and they are 167.67 euros!!
this includes shipping and i get 50.00 euros back when he receives the old ones from me, so i think thats about £100 for a set!!

just been totaling the costs so far on my Ebay bargain, i must be mad!

cost of car...............................£188.00
Delivery...................................£375.00 (not my fault it was in London)
parts from Danny to date........£160.00
battery....................................£33.00
paint.......................................£165.00
brake parts.............................£80.00
end exhaust............................£30.00
total so far..............................£1031.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!

still to come is......
clutch shoes.......................£100.00
tyres..................................£98.00
mot....................................£40.00

(no tax as its 1972, small consolation!)

bloomin' hell i hope the wife does not see this!

this money pit had better serve me well once its on the road! LOL

Best wishes,
Eric.

[spunkymonkey]

Eric,

If you're going to go for replacement then it might be worth getting in touch with Saftek for a quote:

www.saftek.co.uk/index.htm

I've never used them so haven't got a clue what their prices are but they're reasonably local to Yorkshire!

Given that Danny will give a 50€ refund for the old ones, I'd assume that he's getting them relined so you may find that the difference in postage etc makes it worthwhile getting them done locally.


Joe

[ericthered]

thanks for that Joe, going to give them a call in the morning to get an idea of price.

i am always a little wary of this type of thing, sometimes the product is not that good but only fails after any warranty is up, and if its not they replace the item but you still have all the grief that went with the failure, and you never trust the replacements.

i have my concerns about what i will get from Danny too baring this in mind, if anyone has had them and can make me feel better about parting with my cash please let me know.

by the way the car is now polished and looking very nice, not concourse but still very happy with it, will take some shots of it when its back in one piece.
there are some pics before polishing at www.daf33.piczo.com

Best wishes,
Eric.

[spunkymonkey]

I agree that it pays to be wary, Eric, but Danny will either be supplying relined or 30+ year old ones which the bonding may not be 100% on anyway The quality of the job will depend on the company concerned - there's no real mystery about how they should be done - and at least by enquiring direct you can get a feel for how professional they are!

[Bob Scrivens]

Hi Eric
Its not worth it, I tried it and for the first 100+ miles the take off was not too good to the transmittion.
It started nice and smooth but then the secondary engaged and I thought a belt or half shaft would break with the jerk.
I would have a word with a brake reline Company if you have one near you.
I have one and they relined my shoes for about £ 50 and rivited the inner section near the piviot and bonded the remaining shoe, belt and braces!
Need to check the thickness they put on, as it can be a bit too thick and you might have too sand them down to get a free running clutch at tick over.
Nice and smooth now.
Hope the above helps.

Regards Bob.

[ericthered]

Hi Bob and everyone,

thanks for your reply Bob, thats the kind of info i was looking for, i have decided to just get them from Danny.

i can presume that he has done this before and the shoes will be the right thickness etc, it would be nice to do the job and it be right first time with no messing, i dont want to do it twice.

thanks for everyones comments and helping me make up my mind, the costs on the car have been much more than i thought at fist but "in for a penny, in for a pound" i guess .

Best wishes,
Eric.

[Richard DAF Webmeister]

For what it's worth, I got my new clutch shoes from the club a few years ago.
Old ones were taken in exchange for re-lining and recycling.
Eric - might be worth emailing Steve to see whether he still has some available, and cost etc.

[daf44]

hi.

I will be checking the shoes on my 44 over the winter and if they look iffy I will now be relining them. A factors by me will either send them off and reline them for £50 or supply material and rivets for £20. I will see what my finances are doing and decide then.
For £20 it is not worth taking a chance.

Eric. Any old vehicle costs more than you expect. when you start, work out EVERYTHING you think you need and how much it will cost. then TRIPLE it. Works every time.
It is worth it though. There is something about old cars. They just have so much character.

keep up the good work.

paul44

[howard]

Thing is Eric, never forget you are recommisioning a car that hasn't been used in donkey's years. You want it to be reliable and stay reliable, and you're paying the money now instead of later. And you know that all the work has been done. It's never a good idea to add up how much things cost and look at it all in one go! If you bought a car that was MOT'd you'd not expect to replace all the tyres/clutch/exhaust etc all in one go but spread it over a matter of a good few years. Things will even themselves out, and after a few years of NOT paying road tax I am sure you'll consider it a good investment!

[ericthered]

hi all,

its a bit late to get relined as i paid for the shoes last night, on the bright side i should get them next week .

yes triple the estimate on any restoration, you are preaching to the converted on that one, but you always hope to find the odd one out.

the car is worth the outlay and effort, i have been restoring cars for 28 years and NEVER seen a body in such good original condition, pity the paint was knackered! LOL

once its all done and on the road i will soon forget that i have paid more than its worth money wise, as long as it gets me where i want to go.

i keep saying this but.... it should be going for an mot in a few weeks! LOL

will let you know when the big day arrives (it will sail through no bother, i hope!)

best wishes,
Eric.

[veeruk]

LOL, for some reason I read "dutch shoes" instead of clutch shoes. Was wondering what the fuss was all about. ;D

[howard]

I have a set of clogs that I have re-used on several occasions, with no ill-effects

[littlebelter]

I think an important consideration is that "30 years old" shoes will most likely contain asbestos so you are best to be rid of them, having taken suitable precautions when dismantling.

Regards,

Pete.