|
Post by mtjm on Nov 30, 2015 10:29:29 GMT
I've thought a bunch about how to go about supercharging a water-cooled Daf. Really looking forward to seeing how you get on.
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Nov 30, 2015 17:40:31 GMT
Thank you, I can't wait to see how it turns out either. I spent a fun morning trawling an old fashioned scrap yard for a crankshaft pulley suitable for driving the supercharger belt. A sad looking Renault Megane with a pranged front corner produced a nice light alloy pulley of almost exactly the ideal size. The little supercharger loves revs and if my sums are right it needs turning at 2.5 times engine speed to give me the 6 psi of boost I want. This pulley is 156mm diameter which gives a drive ratio of 2.516, close enough! The engine bay is now stripped of the bits I needed out of the way, the radiator will have to have an electric fan on the other side from the standard to give space for the new belt drive and I need to find a very small puller to get the front crank pulley off so that the supercharger pulley can be attached to it. The intake plenum/ supercharger mounting will mount to the twin side draught weber inlet stubs, this next picture shows roughly where the charge cooler cores will fit,inside the plenum box albeit a little bit back from the mouths of the inlets than in the pic.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Nov 30, 2015 19:54:32 GMT
They say there is a fine line between insanity and genius. You are certainly toeing that line! The engineering that has gone into this project is just amazing! Next time you pop over to Holland they will have even more kittens over your little 66!! I cant wait to see how it pans out (undoubtedly very well I expect).
|
|
|
Post by matraman on Dec 4, 2015 18:53:26 GMT
Haven't looked for some time and new ideas are set in motion. Keep up the good work Dave. You obviously have put some thought in this one and sourced some nice hardware. Just a remark if I may: flowing an air/fuel mixture over the cooler might result in fuel condensing on the cooler body. As a result your engine could run very lean in some situations. On a lot of cars the inlet manifold is "heated" by the same cooling fluid that runs through the engine to prevent this phenomenon. Would it be possible to cool the air before the fuel is mixed in? The proposed setup of blower and cooler could for instance be combined with a programmable injection system with the injectors on the engine side of the cooler. Maybe your next step in getting the 66 faster…
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Dec 15, 2015 13:39:44 GMT
Just a remark if I may: flowing an air/fuel mixture over the cooler might result in fuel condensing on the cooler body. As a result your engine could run very lean in some situations. Hi Matraman, you're not the first to mention that potential problem. I have given it some thought and have come up with a plan so that hopefully I won't be over cooling the inlet charge. As the inlet charge will only be heated by the supercharger under boost conditions I have a boost sensitive switch that will turn on the small electric water cooling pump for the chargecooler. The switch is adjustable so that I can adjust the switch on point. I have also bought a small time delay circuit board from eBay ( £5! ) that I can use to adjust how long the pump continues to run after the boost stops, between 0.1 and 120 seconds. I will fit another coolant gauge sensor to the coolant outlet on the chargecooler and have a second temperature gauge inside the car so that I can use this to fine tune the system. Ideally just above ambient at all times is the goal with no high temperature spikes. The large block of alloy for the main body that holds the cores of the cooler has arrived and gone off to be machined to suit, I have attached a PDF of the drawings for this, the pulleys are away being fitted together and I have the front and rear covers for the cooler at home ready for drilling to fit the inlet stubs and supercharger.
. More soon!
Attachment Deleted
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Dec 20, 2015 15:16:13 GMT
The drive pulley I found has been fitted to the original crankshaft pulley. There's a thin shim between the two to give good clearance for the edge of the standard v belt. I'm getting all of the bits together for the water side of the charge cooler, a used header tank, the water pump is a food spec one, 7 liters per minute capacity and ok with hot water. A little small by usual standards but fine for my purposes and very cheap. I'm probably going to use an air conditioning rad in front of the normal radiator to cool the heated water from the cooler.
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Jan 7, 2016 12:21:23 GMT
A little more progress, I have started on the rear cover for the chargecooler. This will be attached to the rear of the main centre cooler block and will be fixed to the engine via the stubby DCOE inlet manifolds. As Father Christmas had bought me a drill press for Christmas I am able to do more fabrication myself at home, no laughing at my amateur working environment!
The 10mm plate was marked and drilled to fit the Weber mounting studs:
Then using the mounting spacers I marked out the position of the inlets and drilled them out:
It fits!
The rough holes need port matching to the manifolds to give a nice smooth flow into the manifolds and then the rest of the holes for the fixing screws drilled once the centre part comes back.
|
|
|
Post by jeroen on Jul 23, 2016 16:00:22 GMT
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Aug 18, 2016 17:51:55 GMT
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Sept 13, 2016 15:22:13 GMT
The original inlet manifold has been disconnected and perched on the rocker cover again while I get back on with measuring and making a front mount for the supercharger which will also carry the tensioner pulley. I am trying to keep the car useable as much as possible rather than take it off the road to do this latest modification, I will work on it this week in the evenings but I need to have it back running again for next Sunday. The tensioner will be close to the sc drive pulley to increase drive belt wrap around it as it's quite small and that's a convenient place for it anyway. I don't have a milling machine so cutting and shaping of the 15mm aluminium block was by my usual method of drilling lots of small holes close together then using a hacksaw to part the pieces. I have a sharp new carbide burr that I run at max speed in the pillar drill and I use that to smooth off the rough edges. The hole for the snout and the two mounting bolt holes were first, [/URL
Some more drilling, More shaping Here it is fitted but not yet drilled to attach to the other part of the mounting, a piece of right angled aluminium which is bolted to the side of the block at the same point as the alternator tensioner arm and will bolt to the back of this snout bracket. The carb to sc manifold is coming along well apparently although I haven't seen it yet, the exhaust manifold will need to come off soon so that I can get a boss welded to it for the lambda sensor for the AFR gauge.
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Nov 1, 2016 17:20:43 GMT
A little more progress today after a month of head scratching over a new problem spotted by the rolling road guy when I showed him the inlet plenum box. A consequence of now using an empty box instead of the original complex chargecooler plan was that the supercharger outlet was now pointing straight at the open inlet tract for cylinder no2. The concern being that no2 would get rammed with charge and no4, the furthest away from the outlet, would not get anywhere near as much. I needed some way of equalising the charge, ideally the supercharger should be moved to point down into the plenum but I'm a long way into this setup now and I don't want so start again. I searched the internet looking for pictures of inlet plenum baffles others had made but couldn't find much that looked any good so I joined an American Superchager forum and asked on there. They were very helpful and I have gone with a variation of an idea the guys on there came up with. I cut the shape from a length of 2.5" stainless pipe, it shields inlets to cylinders 1 and 2 and is cut away to encourage charge towards the end of the box and cylinder 4. I won't know if it works until we try it on the rolling road where we can measure the temperatures of the exhaust manifold branchs under power, ideally they will all be the same but if not then the hotter ones are getting more inlet charge and I could try a different shape of baffle. I also got the gaskets made today, I had bought a cheap set of hole-punches on eBay and this made the process of making the bolt and stud holes much easier than using nail scissors as I've tried to do in the past!
|
|
|
Post by jeroen on Nov 20, 2016 8:36:45 GMT
Dave you need a turbo camshaft in the motor with blower I have the right shaft for you Is it a option to trade the turbo for the normal one? I have got a picture if you want Thanks The valves are to long open for turbo engine
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Nov 20, 2016 9:30:30 GMT
HI Jeroen! I have studied this subject and I know that too much overlap between inlet and exhaust valves would just blow charge straight through the engine and into the exhaust but the Gordini N/A cam whilst being fairly fruity is not that aggressive.
I found this explanation on another forum about camshaft choice with a blower;
"Ok here is the trouble, most people assume that you need the same characteristics for turbo and supercharged engines, this just isn't the case,
on turbo lumps there is usually more pressure in the exhaust than in the inlet which (ignoring inertial effects) tends to make cams more... cammy. so for turbos you want short ish durations and limited overlap (asumng your not trying to do somthing clever)
on charged engines there is not the restriction in the exhaust due to the turbine, and in fact you can get scavenging as per a N/A engine, on the inlet side you will also get a siutuation akin to an N/A engine, but as you suspect when you nail it the charger will move air get stuff flowing in the right direction and get the engine on cam."
Thank you for the offer but I will try the standard cam to start with and see how it is. Also I have got the engine nicely run in after it's recent build and it's still completely oil tight so I don't really want to start rebuilding it again. ;-)
|
|
|
Post by jeroen on Nov 20, 2016 9:55:29 GMT
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Nov 20, 2016 10:32:09 GMT
Yes, they do drink a lot of petrol when towing I agree! I managed nearly 120 kph with my caravan. ;-) I like where you have fitted your oil cooler, very neat. I am fitting one next week but I'm not sure where, I was going to put it in the bumper but I will see if I can do it like you have.
|
|
123davidguy
Likes DAFs
Hi my Daf 66 is up for sale offers please
Posts: 8
|
Post by 123davidguy on Dec 8, 2016 18:38:49 GMT
Hi I need to know if a Renault 5 fuel pump will fit a 1975 Daf 66 block I have found few on ebay and want to make sure I get the correct one
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Dec 8, 2016 20:19:49 GMT
Hi I need to know if a Renault 5 fuel pump will fit a 1975 Daf 66 block I have found few on ebay and want to make sure I get the correct one Hi David, unfortunately it's not that simple. There are lots of variations, some have 3 ports, some have longer levers. The one I found that worked was listed as for a Renault 4, whatever you choose it needs to look like the one below, 1 inlet, 1 outlet.
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Jan 10, 2017 19:00:23 GMT
Apologies to those interested in the supercharger project but I have decided to abandon it. The carb to supercharger adaptor has proved to be trickier than thought and I'm running out of time to find another person who could make one, I want the car to be driveable by April and the weeks are flying by.. I wanted another 30 to 40 horsepower and as the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Through good old eBay I have managed to contact a guy called Salv Sacco, back in the day he was the man for tuning 70s and 80s Renault engines. He has supplied a big bore kit for my G5 engine in the form of 80mm forged Wossner pistons with liners and a 83.6 mm crank. This will give 1690cc with a bump up to 11.5:1 compression ratio, Salv also has my camshaft which he will regrind to a suitable fast road spec that in conjunction with the larger capacity will keep the power band at the same revs as standard and my distributor which he will adjust to suit. With a 21% increase in capacity and the other mods I'm hoping this will produce the power I'm after, fueling will be by a Weber 38DGMS, standard fittting on a 3.0 Capri. The cylinder block will need machining to accept the larger liners, I will be using Scholar engines again and at the same time I will get them to balance the crank, flywheel etc to try to smooth out the vibes transmitted to the car body by the competition engine mountings, which have proven to be un-noticeable below 3000 revs, annoying at motorway cruise speed but necessary to avoid propshaft failure through twisting due to the extra power.
|
|
|
Post by andrejuan on Jan 10, 2017 20:32:02 GMT
Didn't Salv Sacco end up at Power Torque??
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Jan 11, 2017 17:19:49 GMT
Didn't Salv Sacco end up at Power Torque?? You're right, the address was c/o Power Torque engineering.
|
|
|
Post by jeroen on Jan 15, 2017 6:37:46 GMT
Very nice! I was also in contact with salvatorre and he mentioned that someone in the uk bought a dacia crankshaft and BIG pistons i think i found the one that those bought Dave what kind of mountings at the back of your engine do you have? I alpine mountings at daf hobby but they broke on hollyday
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Jan 15, 2017 21:33:04 GMT
Dave what kind of mountings at the back of your engine do you have? I alpine mountings at daf hobby but they broke on hollyday I used the competition ones from Danny too.
|
|
|
Post by jeroen on Jan 16, 2017 19:20:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Jan 18, 2017 20:14:43 GMT
I've now stripped the engine to a bare block and I have delivered it to Scholar engines near Stowmarket with most of the rest of the bottom end in various cardboard boxes. Before it went I trial fitted the bigger Dacia crank as the longer throw of this crank can sometimes cause the end of the conrod caps to touch the inside of the block, it depends upon the individual casting. In my engine there no contact but there was such a tiny clearance on cylinders 1 and 4 (about the thickness of a piece of paper!) that I decided to file a tiny chamfer off the block edge to allow a 2mm gap. I've asked Scholar to bore out the 4 liner holes to suit the larger liners and fully balance the rotating assembly including front crank pulley, flywheel and clutch cover. This also includes balancing the conrods end to end as well, I think they call it a full dymnamic balance, this should make the engine a lot smoother. Bare B14 block This shows how close the clearance was before I removed the area between the pen marks Beautiful Wossner forged Pistons Original crank on the right, new on the left.
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Feb 25, 2017 17:03:35 GMT
Well we're really getting somewhere now! I picked up the machined block and balanced components yesterday and have been busy trial fitting everything and measuring clearances. [ The small areas I previously marked I have filed for rod to block clearance of the long throw crank. The sump also needed a little modification this time with a ball pein hammer to clear the new crank, I bolted the sump on and as the engine was turned it could be felt to catch slightly, fortunately it left telltale marks so I could make small bumps in the wall of the sump to clear. Whilst I have been waiting on the block I have tidied the inlet ports in the cylinder head slightly with my trusty dremel. The ports are really good as standard other than a sharp ridge in the valve throat, this is easily smoothed without changing the shape of the port and should help air flow a bit. Before; After;
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Mar 4, 2017 19:59:35 GMT
Huge news! The mythical carb to supercharger adapter has materialised! This was the missing piece of the supercharger fitting project and I now have everything to fit it. I have decided to go for the lot, the bigger engine, higher compression, hotter cam and the supercharger. The higher compression of the new pistons will be offset partially by the greater capacity, I think the boost will only be 4-5 psi on the 1690cc with the pulley ratio I had worked out to give 6-7 psi on the 1397cc engine. The pistons are also now forged and the liners are steel rather than iron which should also help. The beautiful thing; With the carb fitted; I'm building the engine this week so more pics soon.
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Mar 5, 2017 19:34:12 GMT
One of the dangers with a draw-through supercharger arrangement is the possibility of a backfire. The whole inlet tract from the carb to the inlet valve is full of highly explosive compressed air/fuel mixture and a misfire can cause an explosion that can blow the supercharger off the engine or at least cause some serious damage. It is advisable to use a pop-off valve to vent excess pressure in the event of a backfire. I have made one using a disc of alloy turned in my drill press using the angle grinder as a cutting tool!(not recommended!), a Daf B130 valve Spring and collet and an M8 high tensile bolt and nylock nut as follows;
|
|
|
Post by starider on Mar 6, 2017 22:49:15 GMT
Very impressed with the beautiful engineering. Should run very well, any plans to upgrade the clutch? I would expect it would be a necessity considering the extra power produced. I remember many years ago, my Italian apprentice spent hours adding tuning bits to his Mini, he became obsessed with fitting a stronger clutch. He eventually found a racing clutch,which he duly fitted, used for a couple of weeks and came in one day complaining of a noise when depressing the pedal, a quick look under the bonnet showed the crankshaft pulley moving forward a huge amount when the pedal was depressed, you've guessed,the clutch was so strong the crankshaft thrust bearings had worn down and the crank was grinding into the block!................starider
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Mar 7, 2017 7:48:49 GMT
Thank you Starider. I fitted a new standard clutch when I originally built the engine and this has barely worn so I will be trying that first. If this is not up to the power then there are competition clutches available but they are quite expensive.
|
|
|
Post by swissdave on Mar 7, 2017 20:18:52 GMT
I had a very productive day in the garage, the engine is together except for a few last bits, the gasket I had for the head to water pump housing is wrong so I need to order the correct, Daf fitting type before I can finish that off. The block to snout mount bracket needs making and the belt tensioner fixed to it but that's only a couple of hours work, it's nearly there. I'd like to get it fitted this weekend and running by the end of March. The fuel pump mounting has a 1/2" breather hose fitting there now as I'm using an electric fuel pump and this is a convenient place to vent the crankcase fumes from. This breather pipe will feed up to the oil separator can that I have for the rocker cover breather, the air from this will feed into the air filter. You can also see the oil cooler take off behind the oil filter in this pic. The breather was made with a downward curved pipe going into the block, the camshaft is spinning directly behind its position and flinging oil, I didn't want the breather getting full of oil and not working properly.
|
|