Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 7, 2008 22:36:07 GMT
Hello all, I have finally collected my own part of Dutch History: Now for some photos: More photo's to follow!
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Post by howard on Dec 7, 2008 23:21:56 GMT
'Ere, that place looks familiar. I don't know who that day-van belongs to, but he must be an amazing bloke. Crap at putting engines in though, I bet
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Post by veeruk on Dec 8, 2008 6:47:48 GMT
She looks nice, would run better with an engine hehe. Are you going to put black and silver number plates on her?
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 8, 2008 7:21:09 GMT
I will put black and silver plates on, yes.
I think we managed quite well with the engine.
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stefan
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Post by stefan on Dec 8, 2008 17:51:43 GMT
Looks nice and solid that will have to come round and have a look.
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 8, 2008 23:15:13 GMT
Fancy giving me a hand to get her running on Saturday ? You're welcome any time Stefan. I will be moving house on Sunday, so then I will actually be with the DAF as well.
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 8, 2008 23:40:27 GMT
I live in Nottingham.. we have more speed camera's than police!
But I won't be speeding of course.
Not until Isabel has an MOT and some (free) tax that is.
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stefan
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Post by stefan on Dec 9, 2008 8:04:29 GMT
In Notts you seem to have more speed camras than people not just police I have to drive round alot for work so know were most are.
Have to work both days this weekend (how pants is that) but will come and have a look when you are settled in your new pad.
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 9, 2008 21:03:32 GMT
Poor you I suppose you have got a big responsibility, we don't want Santa to get stuck!
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 14, 2008 16:51:01 GMT
Well, I suppose I'd better update a bit... I have got most things connected now (apart from the choke cable as I can't find the connector) Exhaust is on. Tried to start her, but can't seem to get any fuel to the carb (I can't see any going through the in-line filter). I sucked on the pipe, and there is definitely some fuel in the tank, as I had a mouthful of unleaded Also I can't get the starter motor to turn over fast enough (for my liking) but is that a 6V quirk? Any ideas? I haven't checked for spark as yet, I'll have to get one out of the mog tomorrow as they are easier to get out Thanks Onne
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spunkymonkey
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Post by spunkymonkey on Dec 14, 2008 19:35:21 GMT
Cranking speed with a 6v can be a bit (well, a lot really!) lower than you'd expect. Because half the voltage needs double the current for the same power, and even slightly bad connections will slow it down. That said, Betty was quite happy to fire up with the starter barely managing to get the pistons over-centre - quite cool to hear her firing up on that last, dying, turn of the starter! Having run out of fuel in Betty on the road a couple of months ago, the best way to get it pumped through again (pumping air out the line is hard work for the starter / battery) is to lift the airfilter cover and dribble a little fuel (maybe half an egg-cup) straight into the barrel of the carb. Then try starting. As long as you've got a spark at roughly the right point, that should be enough for her to fire and run for a second or two to lift fuel from the tank. It's an old trick I used to use regularly on a couple of my early cars which had a habit of draining the lines if they were left too long
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daf44
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Post by daf44 on Dec 14, 2008 22:03:43 GMT
hi.
starter speeds can be surprisingly slow on 6v. my 44 often does not get over the compresion point on first attempt. turn the key again and it fires and runs instantly so it is not a problem. i have stripped the starter and there is no problem there.
if you think it is not turning fast enough, jump it off a 12v battery for a few seconds to spin the engine MUCH faster. don't leave the 12v battery connected for more than a few seconds though.
half an egg cup of fuel as well and you should be in business.
good luck.
paul44
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 14, 2008 22:05:42 GMT
I'd better get the fuel can out then tomorrow.
She does turn over quite happily, so fingers crossed!
Thanks as always for the advice.
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 15, 2008 21:07:05 GMT
Tried the egg cup method today, but not a lot of luck.
I did have a couple of revolutions under petrol power, but not a lot.
One thing I did change is the earth strap, this is now on the side of the engine going to the engine mount. The original one was broken ( I never tried starting with out the new earth mind!)
Can anyone help please? I still don't seem to get sufficient fuel to the carb (still haven't seen any fuel in the inline filter) Tank is very empty though (below reserve, but if I suck the pipe I get a mouth full of leaded)
Help.... I want to get this baby up and running!
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spunkymonkey
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Post by spunkymonkey on Dec 15, 2008 21:32:56 GMT
Ok, so getting a few revs "under petrol power" at least confirms you have enough spark and compression for it to fire. With an unknown engine, that's progress The next step is to find out if the pump is successfully lifting fuel from the tank. To make it easy on your battery, remove both spark plugs for this - the engine will spin a lot easier for the next bit. Disconnect the pipe that runs from the fuel pump to the carburettor at the carburettor end and drop it into a jam-jar or similar. Balance (or even tie) the jar so it won't fall over and is away from any HT leads etc. If the pump does deliver you don't want a stray spark setting it off. Not a disaster, but can shake you up a little if it happens! Crank the engine over for a bout 15 - 20 seconds - with the plugs out it will spin much faster and should prime the pump easily in this time. If you get no (or very little) fuel into the jar at this point, then suspect the pump for either damaged / sticking valves or a clogged filter. If you get a decent delivery then you should be looking at the carburettor - most likely for a stuck needle valve in the float chamber if it's been stood for way too long. Then report back findings and await next installment
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 15, 2008 21:44:11 GMT
I will try that tomorrow, I hope that there will be enough charge left in the battery. Don´t have a charger you see..
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daf44
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Post by daf44 on Dec 15, 2008 21:56:41 GMT
hi.
if you are not sure about the battery, take the petrol pipe off at the carb and suck here until petrol comes through. the pump will now be full and petrol should spurt out of the end of the pipe as soon as the engine is turned over. if it doesn't, suspect the pump. if it does spurt out, put some down the neck of the carb, reconnect the pipe and try to start the car again.
you get a mouth full of unleaded but only have to turn the engine for 1 or 2 seconds. could make a difference if you are not sure about the battery.
let us know what happens
paul44
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spunkymonkey
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Post by spunkymonkey on Dec 15, 2008 22:06:03 GMT
Should be able to charge it off a normal 12v trickle charger if you're careful - keep checking for gassing in the cells and stop charging at the first sign of it. Works best with the old style non-electronic chargers cos the "clever" ones may read a 6v battery as dead and refuse to do anything.
Years ago Halfords sold a model with 2 settings - "12v fast" and "6v / 12v trickle". It was nothing more than a transformer, a rectifier pack and a switch. In "trickle" mode it just disconnected half the rectifier pack for a half-wave-rectified output. Simple, cheap, and effective. Sadly, like so many simple and effective things, also no longer available!
Failing that, using jump leads off a 12v car will get it really spinning with the plugs out if needed - only give it 10 seconds or so like that though!
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 15, 2008 22:10:43 GMT
hi. if you are not sure about the battery, take the petrol pipe off at the carb and suck here until petrol comes through. the pump will now be full and petrol should spurt out of the end of the pipe as soon as the engine is turned over. if it doesn't, suspect the pump. if it does spurt out, put some down the neck of the carb, reconnect the pipe and try to start the car again. you get a mouth full of unleaded but only have to turn the engine for 1 or 2 seconds. could make a difference if you are not sure about the battery. let us know what happens paul44 I tried that. I had the filter disconnected on the carb side and sucked on the filter outlet, I did feel resistance and sort of slurpy noises. Maybe the fuel I sucked out was also the last in the tank... I´ll get a jerry can tomorrow and put a gallon of fuel in. At least that rules one thing out!
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daf44
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Post by daf44 on Dec 15, 2008 22:49:20 GMT
hi onne.
i only managed to get hold of a 6v charger myself last week. one of the "clever" ones. does 6v and 12v and cost £12 from aldi or lidl (can't remember which). failing that motorbike shops stock 6v chargers as some small bikes still use 6v. expect to pay £20-£25.
i used to charge 2 6v batteries in series with a 12v charger and that worked until one of the batteries finally gave up of old age.
i have heard that it is possible to use a 6v light bulb connected in series instaed of a second battery. if you have a 4amp charger use a bulb that draws 4amp (24w) if 8amp charger then 8amp (32w) bulb, as the bulb will drop half of the voltage. i have never tried this myself and would be a little wary of the heat generated by a bulb lit like that but it does seem plausable.
maybe joe could give some technical advice here.
good luck
paul44
ps getting fuel through a fuel pump takes a lot of sucking. it took me about 25 seconds to suck fuel from the tank to the pump but another 45 to get it through the pump to the carb. keep trying
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spunkymonkey
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Post by spunkymonkey on Dec 15, 2008 23:19:17 GMT
Using bulbs to drop the voltage works fine, Paul, and would definately be sensible if you needed to do a "full" charge from a 12 v charger. If (as usually for me) it's a case of "get enough in to get it cranking" then the extra "oomph" from using a 12v directly is convenient - will usually give enough to be going with in about 20 mins or so but you DO have to watch for signs of gassing. If the Aldi /Lidl type places are coming out with dual-voltage ones at that sort of price then there's really no contest though
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 16, 2008 22:17:39 GMT
I might just employ a spare leccy pump from the moggie for this task... I'll put some fuel in in a couple of days, and give it another go:)
Problem I have at the moment is that I am house sitting, can't really charge batteries indoors just yet. Would it help if I primed the pump from the carb end? And sort of siphon it through pump etc.
Another question, does anyone have any clear photos of the choke and the throttle linkage on a 33?
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Post by dafdaffer on Dec 16, 2008 23:03:33 GMT
let me know what time you finish work this week and i will pop over. i will bring a charger and bit
Paul
Ps nice to meet you at stefs
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 16, 2008 23:13:28 GMT
Hi Stefan, I am home everyday at about 6.30 Maybe it would be better to wait until the weekend. At least we'd have the chance of some light Nice meet you too, good to put faces to names!
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 17, 2008 22:15:52 GMT
So, I have ruled out the fuel pump as well...
I used a 500 ml water bottle full of fresh fuel and it filled the filter up no problem.
So I think I need to look into the carb itself. The float might well be sticking, as when I try to blow the fuel hose into the carb I can´t do it (in other words the float is up) Carb is trying to flood down the side as well.
Is it easy to have a gander at the float chamber? It´s more complex than the Minor, that´s for sure!
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daf44
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Post by daf44 on Dec 17, 2008 23:13:30 GMT
hi.
if you cant blow into a carb it may actually be full.
try tapping it with the wooden end of a hammer, the shock may free the floats.
if that doesn,t work then they are not too bad to strip as long as you are careful.
keep trying.
paul44
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 17, 2008 23:28:35 GMT
I´ll have another look tomorrow (with the manual to hand)
This is the last thing I can think of really...
Whereabouts is the float situated? Is it an internal chamber on these type of carb?
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spunkymonkey
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Post by spunkymonkey on Dec 17, 2008 23:30:23 GMT
It's all progress, Onne. You now know it can burn fuel (from pouring some in the barrel) and you know it can pump fuel. Can you see where the flood down the side is coming from? If it's not from the delivery pipe or union then the float must be allowing fuel in, and your inability to blow through may simply be because the float chamber's already full. Of course, what it's full of is another matter with a car that's been standing that long! There's also a strainer in the inlet union - behind the large hex plug - that could be blocked with crud, although I've never seen one so blocked that nothing would get through (doesn't mean it can't happen though!) In any case, having narrowed it down to a carb problem, it's best to get the top off and give it a quick clean out. Removing the top is simply a case of take off the aircleaner (and housing), undo the 6 (from memory) screws that look like carburettor-top-holding-screws and lifting the top off. The choke flap linkage will unhook as you do this, leaving the cable etc still connected to the bottom half, and simply hooks back into place on reassembly (you'll see when you do it). The float level is stated as 17 +-1 mm but there's no mention in the Autodata book of where it's measured from. As long as the float's not holed, I've never known one be too far out though! Main jet is accessible in the bottom of the float chamber (with the acceleration pump inlet valve above it). All fuel, including the idle supply, passes through the main jet on these carbs, so need to make sure it's not blocked! Once you have a clear main jet, no stagnant water in the float chamber, and a needle valve that's working, there's virtually nothing else to stop her firing up. Simple engines only need spark, compression and fuel. You've already got the first two and sorting the carb will give you the third Finally, if you find she starts but is obviously way out of tune, the starting point for the volume screw adjustment is 2 1/2 turns out from fully in & final setting should be within about 1/2 turn either way of that. Hope to hear good results tomorrow Joe
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stefan
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Post by stefan on Dec 18, 2008 9:16:24 GMT
That sounds like some good advice joe, Onne if you do not get it started me and paul will have to have alook I will have a word with paul and see when we are both available to come over, I am working saturday this weekend again.
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Onne
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Post by Onne on Dec 18, 2008 22:22:52 GMT
I got the carb topless today ( and it looks fairly clean. Float works fine, as does the needle. I gave the top part a quick clean as well. And did she start? Well yes she did, but not on actual fuel , but on start gas. Got her running for about 5 seconds I have not got a clue as yet what the idle setting is. I also seem to be missing some sort of spacer for the throttle linkage. Can anyone guide me though what parts are on the end of the throttle cable? My current set-up is cable through adjustment thing one nut on either side. Through the little square pivot half a dozen of spare nuts to space things out The final little nylock I am also still confused about the choke linkage. But at least she fires up for a moment or two!
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